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12-07-2009, 12:53 PM
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#1 (permalink)
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Posts: 95
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Fianchetto - An easy way to lose
1. e4 e5 2. Qh5 g6 3. Qxe5+ Qe7 4. Qxh8 Qxe4+ 5. Ne2 Qxc2 6. Qxg8 d5 7. Qxh7 1-0
I was black, and after that I swore at my opponent and left. From this day forward, I would rather leave a bishop en prise, then to go back into this damned position.
But uselessness(es?) aside, its a pretty nice trap for black. Ill remember it.
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12-07-2009, 02:59 PM
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#2 (permalink)
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Posts: 1,398
Thanked 48 Times in 48 Posts
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spoken profanity has no place in chess!
__________________
Signature? I don't need no stinking signature.
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12-07-2009, 04:16 PM
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#3 (permalink)
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Posts: 3,004
Thanked 211 Times in 200 Posts
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Exactly! Keep your profanity written!!!
As for the game, that was kinda sad. When your opponent plays 2. Qh5?!, there are quite a few good moves to refute it, but 2. ... g6?? isn't one of them. You gave him a free rook, even if you hadn't blown the defense later and given up mate.
I usually respond with 2. ... Nf6, giving up the e5 pawn to gain time attacking the queen. After 3. Qxe5+ Be7, I follow up with Nc6 soon to chase the queen again, then castle, push the d pawn, and end up with a good lead in development that compensates for the pawn.
If you don't want to give up the e5 pawn 2. ... Nc6 is the other popular response. After 3. Bc4 (threatening 4. Qxf7#), you'll need to protect f7 at that point. I don't have a board in front of me to look at this and make sure I'm not overlooking something, but 3. ... g6 might work at that point, since e5 is protected. Then perhaps 4. Qf3 (again threatening Qxf7#) 4. ... Nf6, followed by Bg7 and O-O to get a solid defensive position.
But on the up side, everyone needs to learn the hard way how important it is to protect f2/f7. When I first started playing, I walked into the typical scholar's mate in 4 moves once. I never made that mistake again. And hopefully, you won't either.
--Fromper
__________________
"Don't be afraid of ghosts! Always play the moves you want to play unless you see a genuine tactical drawback." --Grandmaster Neil McDonald
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12-07-2009, 05:20 PM
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#4 (permalink)
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Posts: 1,029
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Some of you might already know this, but I think it's good for beginners to hear as it may not be immediately obvious. The reason the f2/f7 square is so vulnerable is because it's the only pawn that is protected only by the king. Every other pawn touching the king is protected by at least one other piece. Therefore, if f2/f7 is captured from the initial position, only the king can recapture and if it cannot it will either have to move or face checkmate.
I also want to add that another benefit to castling beyond simple king safety (king is safer away from the center) is that it also brings an extra defender to f2/f7 making it far less vulnerable.
__________________
USCF: 2262, High: 2262
FIDE: 2228, High: 2228
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12-07-2009, 08:53 PM
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#5 (permalink)
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Posts: 95
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
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Oh well, it was a pretty bad move on my part. I really don't know why I did it. But it does make a pretty good trap.
I'll try out the trap and keep those ideas up there ^^ in mind.
Nc3 wouldve been better.
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12-07-2009, 09:58 PM
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#6 (permalink)
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Posts: 3,004
Thanked 211 Times in 200 Posts
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And just so you know what the classic 4 move "scholar's mate" is, in case you haven't seen it before: 1. e4 e5 2. Qh5 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Qxf7#
Black's second move can be anything that doesn't protect f7 or attack the queen on h5. Black's third move can be anything that doesn't protect f7, even if it does attack h5.
Also note that white can switch the move order, playing 2. Bc4 before 3. Qh5. This is much sounder for white, since 1. e4 e5 2. Bc4 is a respectable opening without 3. Qh5. Some beginners play this and then continue with normal development (Nc3, Nf3, etc) if black plays 2. ... Nf6 to stop 3. Qh5. Then if black doesn't play 2. ... Nf6, they'll still go for 3. Qh5, hoping black doesn't protect f7.
Also, the correct spelling is fianchetto, and it refers to putting a bishop on g7 or b7 (g2 or b2 for white). The fact that you played g6 without ever getting to Bg7 means that this isn't technically a fianchetto game.
--Fromper
__________________
"Don't be afraid of ghosts! Always play the moves you want to play unless you see a genuine tactical drawback." --Grandmaster Neil McDonald
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12-09-2009, 08:35 AM
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#7 (permalink)
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Posts: 123
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
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1. e4 e5 2. Qh5 g6 3. Qxe5+ Qe7 4. Qxh8 Qxe4+ 5. Ne2 Qxc2 6. Qxg8 d5 7. Qxh7 1-0
Tactics are made up of targets and patterns. A target as I define it is any unit (piece or pawn) that is Equally Attacked and Defended (EAD). For example after 1.e4 the e-pawn is attacked zero times and defended zero times and is therefore a target. Same is true after 1..e5. In this game, White saw targets and attacked them (watch your computer play, it hammers targets unmercifully). By the way, in the starting position, all four rooks are targets because they are EAD0, therefore watch out!
So he saw the e5 pawn was EAD0 (attacked zero and defended zero) and attacked it with 2.Qh5 (I'm not saying it is good or not, just pointing out what happened). After 2.Qh5, now the Pf7 is a target as well (EAD1) and he is threatening to capture the Pe5 for free.
You saw the Qh5 as EAD0 and attacked it with 2..g6 while shielding the target Pf7, not seeing his threat. In this position the Pe5 and Rh8 are targets so 3.Qxe5+, etc.
So watch out for both your targets and your opponents targets.
Last edited by Belaji; 12-09-2009 at 08:41 AM..
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12-09-2009, 10:40 AM
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#8 (permalink)
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Posts: 1,013
Thanked 82 Times in 81 Posts
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The Parham Attack, aka Wayward Queen Attack, Danvers Attack, or Patzer Opening, and now these days, The Nakamura Attack is characterized by the moves 1.e4 e5 2.Qh5?!
Originally the move was named after U.S. master Bernard Parham. Parham also played early development of his queen in other openings like the Sicilian Defense.
Obviously the move violates opening principles because it develops the Queen too early and subjects it to attack. Still the opening can cause Black some problems as shown in some games by the super strong U.S. GM Hikaru Nakamura who plays it frequently in Internet blitz games and actually played it a couple times in tournament play against other GM’s.
Of course when your rating is over 2600, as is Nakanura’s, you can play a lot of things. On the other hand, Dutch GM Hans Ree called 2.Qh5 "a provocative but quite sensible move” and Nakamura himself said he believes it’s a playable move.
One thing is sure: there is no direct refutation so could Nakumura and Ree be right?
At first I thought Nakamura might be pulling our leg, but you know what? When GM’s, especially highly rated ones, sit down to play and there’s money, rating points and prestige on the line, they don’t play silly stuff. Nakamura may be accused of goofing off on the Internet, but OTB is another matter.
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12-09-2009, 10:49 AM
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#9 (permalink)
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Posts: 269
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
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Belaji---your chess lingo is distracting. Even experienced chess players will have trouble following your logic. EAD is something I've never heard of---that doesn't make it bad. The logic makes it bad. If it is a system it should tell you 2. Qh5 is bad---you're bringing the Queen out to early. Fromper's 2. Nf6 is a good response---sacrificing a pawn allows you to push the queen around and develope your pieces. Belaji, you say watch your computer play. Yeah, I watch it play 2.Qh5 and start receiving negative signals. The trap is older than methuselah and most beginners are aware of the trap.  Nakamura plays chess on another planet. Steinitz played some bizaare moves as well but I wouldnt recommend you follow him. Suttles played some crazy openings and they worked for him! We could settle this discussion on the chessboard---Jackson vs Fromper. The opening moves are 1. e4 e5 2. Qh5 ...
The pawn on f7 is a tempting target and players often sacrifice material to open up the King's position. However, after the King has castled short, the rook pawn often becomes a target and has resulted in some very beautiful games for white. The Art of Attack in Chess examines all the different ways one can attack the king. 
Last edited by notlesu; 12-09-2009 at 11:03 AM..
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12-09-2009, 02:59 PM
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#10 (permalink)
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Posts: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
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Can this be announce in other languages?
Greetings all,
I would like to understand whether this forum can be made into other languages?
Can anyone give help me how that is be done?
Merci
Cizomobbiteve
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