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06-25-2009, 07:55 AM
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#1 (permalink)
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Posts: 3
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What does "Save the Draw" mean?
I am an actor and am playing the role of a chess champion. In the script, my character talks about "saving the draw". I know what a draw is, of course, but I can't find anything on the internet to explain why a chess champion would talk about "saving the draw" during an international match. And what it means to "save it".
Thanks for your help in explaining this! Thanks!
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06-25-2009, 08:30 AM
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#2 (permalink)
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Posts: 2,155
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Hm, salvaging a draw from a worse (or even lost) position I should think. Personally, I would associate it with drawing through some clever ploy.
That's what seems logical to me, though english isn't my first language.
__________________
White:
- Ruy Lopez
- Sicilian Defense: Chekhover variation, Rossolimo variation, 2. ... e6 3. d4
- French Defense: Bogo-Winawer variation, Alekhine-Chatard attack
- Pirc Defense: Byrne variation
Black:
- Ruy Lopez: Modern Steinitz variation
- Two Knights Defense: Fritz variation, Ulvestadt variation
- King's Gambit: Falkbeer Countergambit: Nimzowitsch variation
- Tarrasch Defense
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06-25-2009, 01:28 PM
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#3 (permalink)
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Posts: 67
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What Perseus said. One of my friends recently managed to "save the draw" when down a rook in the endgame by cleverly arranging the board so that the opponent could only move his king back and forth, or else get checkmated or lose a rook.
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06-25-2009, 06:28 PM
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#4 (permalink)
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Posts: 3
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Thanks all.
I think the point I'm stuck on is using the word "save". To me "save" means to either save something for another time or "save from something happening". But wouldn't that be "save the loss"? Maybe that's just the phraseology of professional chess?
I'm trying to figure out if it means that you "save" the draw you might legally have in a pro match? But if so, then that line in the script doesn't make sense, because he forces the game into a draw.
If "save" means to "save the game from defeat", then I would guess that the line would be "save the game", not save the draw.
Thank you SO much for your help!
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06-25-2009, 07:48 PM
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#5 (permalink)
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Posts: 2,239
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As above, "Save the draw" means saving yourself from defeat by finding a way to force a draw.
--Fromper
:juggle:
__________________
"Don't be afraid of ghosts! Always play the moves you want to play unless you see a genuine tactical drawback." --Grandmaster Neil McDonald
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06-25-2009, 09:14 PM
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#6 (permalink)
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Posts: 2,155
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Originally Posted by billyalberto
Thanks all.
I think the point I'm stuck on is using the word "save". To me "save" means to either save something for another time or "save from something happening". But wouldn't that be "save the loss"? Maybe that's just the phraseology of professional chess?
I'm trying to figure out if it means that you "save" the draw you might legally have in a pro match? But if so, then that line in the script doesn't make sense, because he forces the game into a draw.
If "save" means to "save the game from defeat", then I would guess that the line would be "save the game", not save the draw.
Thank you SO much for your help!
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It's merely chess slang. "Save the game" could also mean saving the game (a win that is) from a drawn position which is entirely possible.
Yes, it might be through a specific rule that the draw is a forced result, a 3-fold repetition (the exact same position appears 3 times in a row, that rule has a few exceptions regarding castling and en passant captures which usually don't apply), the 50 move rule (no pawn move is made for 50 consecutive moves), stalemate (where the player to move has no legal moves) and insufficient material (where neither player has pieces adequate to mate the other)..
There is also the perpetual check where one player can check the other forever, and does so, technically this isn't a draw in and of itself but usually draws are agreed upon in such cases because the game would inevitably go into a 3-fold repetition or the 50 move rule.
These rules are pretty universal. Most of the time drawn games were drawn by agreement though.
__________________
White:
- Ruy Lopez
- Sicilian Defense: Chekhover variation, Rossolimo variation, 2. ... e6 3. d4
- French Defense: Bogo-Winawer variation, Alekhine-Chatard attack
- Pirc Defense: Byrne variation
Black:
- Ruy Lopez: Modern Steinitz variation
- Two Knights Defense: Fritz variation, Ulvestadt variation
- King's Gambit: Falkbeer Countergambit: Nimzowitsch variation
- Tarrasch Defense
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06-25-2009, 09:17 PM
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#7 (permalink)
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Posts: 1,080
Thanked 70 Times in 68 Posts
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From the books, Saving the Draw may go back to Reshevsky.
See the Game Fine-Reshevsky AVRO 1938. Fine could have saved the draw, but made a wrong move in the ending and lost the game.
Another game later in Reshevsky's career against Evans USA 1963, Reshevsky swindled Evans into a draw. (Saving the Draw).
In a game played in Moscow, or Leningrad Reshevky noticed the crowd unusually large and asked why. The fans wanted to see how Reshevsky was going to wriggle out of a lost position. He answered not today.
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06-26-2009, 05:02 PM
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#8 (permalink)
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Posts: 1,343
Thanked 46 Times in 45 Posts
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"Saving" a draw would imply that the player would be in a losing position (down material or under attack), but would either prevent a loss by either a brilliant move that wins the material back, or forcing a draw by threefold repetition (repeated checks that the opponent can't escape from).
Although this would be more of losing a win than saving a draw, but an opponent with a better position may bunder away the material or accidentally stalemate the opponent (giving the opponent no legal moves when it's his turn). This happens in beginner's play, especially with queens.
As for your second question, it is to save from something happening (a loss) rather than wrap it up in saran wrap and eat it for dinner that night  .
__________________
Brick walls hurt, but are effective for banging against repeatedly. For future reference, cardboard walls are fun too 
Being a professional player is something akin to being a prostitute. First I played because other people did it. Then I played because I liked to play. And finally I played just for the money. - Benko
Procrastination: due date = do date
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06-26-2009, 09:04 PM
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#9 (permalink)
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Posts: 3
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Thanks to all of you! You've made this much more understandable to me - it's helped immensely...
and I'm finding this new passion for Chess.
Thanks so much for taking the time to explain all of this.
Best to all.
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