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Game 4*: Perseus vs Rimuel [Thematic]

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  • Game 4*: Perseus vs Rimuel [Thematic]

    1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Nf3 g5

    I'm more of a classical player No more Alekhine-like games for now.

    Annotation:

    With g5, Black pronounces his intention to hold on to the extra material. This move grabs some Kingside space but makes Black's King more vulnerable in return.

    "Blame yourself, or blame God." - Delita, FFT
    "Give up on yourself, and you give up on the world." - Joshua, TWEWY

  • #2
    "This town ain't big enough for the both of us"
    1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.h4

    The main lines of the KGA. I have on occassion played the Muzio gambit (4.Bc4 g4 5.O-O gxf3 6.Qxf3) and, when I knew nothing of openings, Rosentreter's ancient (and dubious) 4.d4.

    Anyway, some points to be made:
    - I'm a pawn down. Compensation: in part is the knight on f3 while black commits to defending the pawn (the standard gambit stuff).
    - That g-pawn serves two functions: it threatens g4 which is for the most part critical. It also covers f4 for the time being.
    - My h4 then attacks the base of the pawn chain, where you can't play h6 like the Becker defence (h6 before g5) for the simple fact that after hxg5 you can't recapture because there'd be a rook hanging.
    - It should be noted that f6 too is asking for trouble. It is a serious lemon:
    4... f6? 5.Nxg5! fxg5 6.Qh5+ Ke7 7.Qxg5+ Nf6 8.e5!
    White will find this very amusing: a queen check on king rook 4, the king moving to king 2 and getting in trouble. And it's not white getting in trouble, but black, good times! Just to say, if you see that f6-g5-f4 chain, look for Nxg5-Qh5+ patterns. What's also interesting in that bit of line I just mentioned, is that white doesn't have to take the knight rightaway either! (just thought I'd point that out).
    Generally: f6 is bad mmkay?
    - Downside to h4: you can still play g4 evicting my knight. In fact, that's what black should/will always do here. I'm sure you could throw in d5 first as well to mix it up, but nobody does that.
    When the knight gets kicked by g4, Allgaier's Ng5 isn't much to look at; everybody agrees on Kieseritzky's Ne5 (about 1 centuries old theory!).
    - Upside to h4: black is doing what I want him to, weakening the kingside structure in favour of an early pawn initiative.This complicates matters and steers into positions I feel comfortable with even though black is technically perfectly happy.
    - My plans for white always include d4. In the meantime if my knight gets chased with g4-d6, I would play Ne5-Nxg4 and that knight might even end up on f2..
    - I would like to play moves like Nc3 and Bc4, but I have to play somewhat energetically. I can play as if I were even in material and mount pressure on the position; sooner or later something will give. A pawn will be given back or more concrete compensation will offer itself.
    - Strangely, I would also castle kingside, simply because it takes far too long to go the other way and leaving it on e1 is just too risky.
    Why is that? Well, black's counter is d5 in an awful lot of positions. That shot will usually open up the e-file making e1 particularly unhospitable. I note that, as this is e4-e5, that d5 break being a standard ploy should come as no surprise to black, nor white's efforts for d4 for that matter (the main idea behind the KG).
    - The half-open f-file can help me in the middlegame if I castle short. The open diagonals a7-g1 and h4-e1 are a pain in the neck. Watch those diagonals like a hawk with both white and black. You want the queen to check on h4 though, not a bishop. (Illustrated by 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 Be7 4.Bc4 Bh4+ 5.Kf1); developing Be7 can be quite decent and reasonable, in our current game there's a pawn on h4 to be grabbed for instance, just note the resulting check isn't (usually) that menacing because it's just the bishop.

    Enough food for thought at this point!

    (Put in some emphasis and underlines to improve readability, hope I succeeded)
    Have you read the Forum rules?

    Queeg: Pawn to King Four. Holly: Horsie to King Bish Three.
    Rimmer: It's called a "knight," actually, Holly...
    Queeg: Knight to King Bishop three. Holly: Queen to Rook Eight. Checkmate.
    Queeg: That's an illegal move. Holly: Oh, sorry. Queens don't move like that. I was thinking of poker.
    Holly: Cleudo? You could be Colonel Mustard.
    Cat: If it's any help, I've been studying his tactics and there's a pattern emerging: Every time you make a move, he makes one too. *Winks to Holly*
    Holly: *Winks back* Thanks, Cat.
    --Red Dwarf

    Comment


    • #3
      1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.h4 g4

      The Main Line, I believe. Very informative btw.

      I recently played a KG game on FICS as White. I lost terribly . When I'm free I'll post it for analysis.


      ......But I still enjoy going down in flames rather than dying a slow and painful death. That is why I am playing sharp lines these days.

      "Blame yourself, or blame God." - Delita, FFT
      "Give up on yourself, and you give up on the world." - Joshua, TWEWY

      Comment


      • #4
        Now you're attacking my knight, which is a problem. Going back makes little sense with Ne5 and Ng5?! available.
        4... g4 is the only enterprising try and almost always played. Black is getting aggressive with his pawns on the kingside with both immediate danger (knight) and long term (castling into a pawn storm of sorts).

        1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.h4 g4 5.Ne5

        The knight is okay for the time being. It attacks g4 as well.

        While g4 is objectively best, you should keep in mind that both the extra f-pawn and the g-pawn are now loose. Black will have to choose what he will defend and how he will do it.
        The g-pawn can be defended with h5 at some point. The f-pawn can be protected by Bh6 or by pushing it to f3 at some point (triggering a trade more often than not).

        But that's about holding onto (extra) material. You could try to doggedly hold onto all these little fellows, but in the meantime they'll come under attack and I have more space in the centre and a tempo and a half while black's kingside is shot.
        If the material is returned in inconvenient enough fashion, black will be equal or a little more equal than white; it would take off the double-edgedness (if that's a word).

        Closing note: Ne5 attacks f7 and it comes with serious threats to that point in the black camp. All else being equal, I will play Bc4 next.
        A dangerous threat; but it's not completely necessary to evict the knight immediately.
        Have you read the Forum rules?

        Queeg: Pawn to King Four. Holly: Horsie to King Bish Three.
        Rimmer: It's called a "knight," actually, Holly...
        Queeg: Knight to King Bishop three. Holly: Queen to Rook Eight. Checkmate.
        Queeg: That's an illegal move. Holly: Oh, sorry. Queens don't move like that. I was thinking of poker.
        Holly: Cleudo? You could be Colonel Mustard.
        Cat: If it's any help, I've been studying his tactics and there's a pattern emerging: Every time you make a move, he makes one too. *Winks to Holly*
        Holly: *Winks back* Thanks, Cat.
        --Red Dwarf

        Comment


        • #5
          1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.h4 g4 5.Ne5 h5

          This is the variation I'm interested in now.

          "Blame yourself, or blame God." - Delita, FFT
          "Give up on yourself, and you give up on the world." - Joshua, TWEWY

          Comment


          • #6
            1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.h4 g4 5.Ne5 h5 6.Bc4
            Have you read the Forum rules?

            Queeg: Pawn to King Four. Holly: Horsie to King Bish Three.
            Rimmer: It's called a "knight," actually, Holly...
            Queeg: Knight to King Bishop three. Holly: Queen to Rook Eight. Checkmate.
            Queeg: That's an illegal move. Holly: Oh, sorry. Queens don't move like that. I was thinking of poker.
            Holly: Cleudo? You could be Colonel Mustard.
            Cat: If it's any help, I've been studying his tactics and there's a pattern emerging: Every time you make a move, he makes one too. *Winks to Holly*
            Holly: *Winks back* Thanks, Cat.
            --Red Dwarf

            Comment


            • #7
              Candidate Moves:

              1...Nh6

              Protects f7, which allows the King the right to castle for the mean time. It develops a piece but that's not worth much since it's on the rim.

              1...d6? or 1...f6? would be answered with 2.Bxf7+ or 2.Bf7+ and after 2...Ke7, 0-0, d4, Rxf4 or Bxf4 will be very uncomfortable for Black.

              1...d5 seems possible, giving back the pawn, but the pawn on f4 seems lost easily, so 1...d5 would be like a countergambit of sorts.

              1...Qe7 might be interesting, but after 2.Nc3 Nh6 2.d4 Black is still going to be in danger.


              So...

              1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.h4 g4 5.Ne5 h5 6.Bc4 Nh6

              "Blame yourself, or blame God." - Delita, FFT
              "Give up on yourself, and you give up on the world." - Joshua, TWEWY

              Comment


              • #8
                There were two playable candidates at move 6 for black: 6... Rh7 is the only real alternative to what you played.
                6... d5? 7.Bxd5 solves nothing at the cost of a pawn, 6... Qe7? 7.Bxf7+ Kd8 8.d4 is worse.
                They're natural moves to consider, but run into tactical trouble. Bxf7 is a very, very concrete, direct and powerful threat.

                6... Rh7 is a double edged line: 7.Bxf7+ Rxf7 8.Nxf7 Kxf7 9.d4
                Hard to say what's going on here. Harder to play for black in my experience, though probably equal.

                1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.h4 g4 5.Ne5 h5 6.Bc4 Nh6 7.d4
                This is an absolute no-brainer. It gains the promised two-pawn centre and takes a lot of space. It also clears the bishop on c1 for action and frees the d2 and d3 squares for use by a knight.
                The threat is very simple: Bxf4 regaining the pawn with time gained.


                Thus endeth the opening book, here be dragons.
                (7... Qf6, black's next exits theory. Theory continues d6. There is also some precendence for Be7.)
                Have you read the Forum rules?

                Queeg: Pawn to King Four. Holly: Horsie to King Bish Three.
                Rimmer: It's called a "knight," actually, Holly...
                Queeg: Knight to King Bishop three. Holly: Queen to Rook Eight. Checkmate.
                Queeg: That's an illegal move. Holly: Oh, sorry. Queens don't move like that. I was thinking of poker.
                Holly: Cleudo? You could be Colonel Mustard.
                Cat: If it's any help, I've been studying his tactics and there's a pattern emerging: Every time you make a move, he makes one too. *Winks to Holly*
                Holly: *Winks back* Thanks, Cat.
                --Red Dwarf

                Comment


                • #9
                  After 6...Rh7 Bronstein once quipped: " This is the only opening variation, where the first piece developed by black is his king's rook"...
                  There are only three kinds of chessplayers: Those who can count and those who cannot.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by mrmip View Post
                    After 6...Rh7 Bronstein once quipped: " This is the only opening variation, where the first piece developed by black is his king's rook"...
                    Bronstein's knowledge is outdated: 1.d4 f5 2.Bg5 h6 3.Bh4 g5 4.e4 Rh7
                    Have you read the Forum rules?

                    Queeg: Pawn to King Four. Holly: Horsie to King Bish Three.
                    Rimmer: It's called a "knight," actually, Holly...
                    Queeg: Knight to King Bishop three. Holly: Queen to Rook Eight. Checkmate.
                    Queeg: That's an illegal move. Holly: Oh, sorry. Queens don't move like that. I was thinking of poker.
                    Holly: Cleudo? You could be Colonel Mustard.
                    Cat: If it's any help, I've been studying his tactics and there's a pattern emerging: Every time you make a move, he makes one too. *Winks to Holly*
                    Holly: *Winks back* Thanks, Cat.
                    --Red Dwarf

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Indeed it is. Bronstein said it in 1947. A quick look at the Dutch line you mention indicates (CB 12) that it was first played in 2003.
                      So David may have been right at the time he said that.
                      There are only three kinds of chessplayers: Those who can count and those who cannot.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.h4 g4 5.Ne5 h5 6.Bc4 Nh6 7.d4 Qf6


                        7...d6 is likely safer, but I think Qf6 is more aggressive, and keeps the f4 pawn protected in the mean time.

                        "Blame yourself, or blame God." - Delita, FFT
                        "Give up on yourself, and you give up on the world." - Joshua, TWEWY

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Rimuel V2 View Post
                          1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.h4 g4 5.Ne5 h5 6.Bc4 Nh6 7.d4 Qf6

                          7...d6 is likely safer, but I think Qf6 is more aggressive, and keeps the f4 pawn protected in the mean time.
                          7... d6 is the only challenginge move in my opinion. Be7 is playable, but not very good. I think Qf6 could be a serious mistake, you're slowing down to protect the f-pawn putting the queen in a precarious place.

                          1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.h4 g4 5.Ne5 h5 6.Bc4 Nh6 7.d4 Qf6 8.Nc3


                          Standard move if something new comes up. Here it's an obvious move too, threatening Nd5 while covering the e-pawn.
                          Have you read the Forum rules?

                          Queeg: Pawn to King Four. Holly: Horsie to King Bish Three.
                          Rimmer: It's called a "knight," actually, Holly...
                          Queeg: Knight to King Bishop three. Holly: Queen to Rook Eight. Checkmate.
                          Queeg: That's an illegal move. Holly: Oh, sorry. Queens don't move like that. I was thinking of poker.
                          Holly: Cleudo? You could be Colonel Mustard.
                          Cat: If it's any help, I've been studying his tactics and there's a pattern emerging: Every time you make a move, he makes one too. *Winks to Holly*
                          Holly: *Winks back* Thanks, Cat.
                          --Red Dwarf

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.h4 g4 5.Ne5 h5 6.Bc4 Nh6 7.d4 Qf6 8.Nc3

                            Yeah, I saw the Nd5 idea. Two principles come to mind that tells me what I should play:

                            "When down in development, one should exchange pieces."
                            "When up in material, one should trade down and simplify the position."

                            Hence,

                            8...Bb4


                            There are two issues with this move. One, trading would give White the Bishop pair. In an open position like this, that spells trouble. Two, it remains to be seen whether one can really hold on to the f4 pawn.

                            "Blame yourself, or blame God." - Delita, FFT
                            "Give up on yourself, and you give up on the world." - Joshua, TWEWY

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I see it differently. Black's position is rather problematic and requires very precise play.

                              Trading the bishop for knight, messing the pawns a little: minor issue. Bb4 can only stop Nd5 for one move, after O-O the pin is broken and Nd5 would hit the queen, practically forcing Bxc3 as I see it. After that, I have two pieces on the f4-square and Rxf4 (rather than taking the bishop first) becomes awfully enticing!
                              That would (1) return the pawn, (2) hit the queen which is in an awkward spot and (3) probably force further concessions on black's part because suddenly he's running into all sorts of active pieces, which I don't think black will survive.

                              1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.h4 g4 5.Ne5 h5 6.Bc4 Nh6 7.d4 Qf6 8.Nc3 Bb4 9.O-O


                              This is the sort of position that makes the KG user's mouth water. Black's kingside is a mess, the king in the centre. White is castled and has four pieces cleared for action against three for black who are poorly coordinated. The ground has not been trapped (no d6, no c6), there is but one front: the kingside. The f-pawn is about to be returned as well.
                              Have you read the Forum rules?

                              Queeg: Pawn to King Four. Holly: Horsie to King Bish Three.
                              Rimmer: It's called a "knight," actually, Holly...
                              Queeg: Knight to King Bishop three. Holly: Queen to Rook Eight. Checkmate.
                              Queeg: That's an illegal move. Holly: Oh, sorry. Queens don't move like that. I was thinking of poker.
                              Holly: Cleudo? You could be Colonel Mustard.
                              Cat: If it's any help, I've been studying his tactics and there's a pattern emerging: Every time you make a move, he makes one too. *Winks to Holly*
                              Holly: *Winks back* Thanks, Cat.
                              --Red Dwarf

                              Comment

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