Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules

Forum rules

(1) Posts are to be made in the relevant forum. Users are asked to read the forum descriptions before posting.
(2) Off topic posts are limited to active members who have actually posted on-topic in one of the chess-oriented sections in the past. Any user whose first post does not relate to chess will be banned permanently. Posts in the Introduction section do not count.
(3) Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users. Be tolerant at any time. Flaming or abusing users in any way will not be tolerated.
(4) Discussions on political and religious topics are not allowed. Posts containing elements thereof will be redacted or deleted and a temporary or permanent ban may be placed upon the user.
Discussions on politics in chess organisations and the way politics affect chess are allowed.
(4a) Drug use references are not allowed and discussions on drugs are not allowed.
(5) Members are asked to not act as "back seat moderators". If members have something to report they are welcome to bring it to the attention of moderator either by a PM or in this thread: http://www.chessforums.org/forum-new...moderator.html
(6) If you wish to report a PM please forward the PM to a moderator and leave a post here: http://www.chessforums.org/forum-new...moderator.html. Don't hesitate to report a PM if you believe it violates the forum rules, even if someone else has already reported a (similar) PM by the same user; having more reports makes it easier for the moderators to take action.
(7) These rules apply to forum posts as well as private messages (PMs).
(8) Members should post in a way which is consistent with "normal writing". That is users should not post excessive numbers of emoticons (smilies), large, small or coloured text, etc. Similarly users should not SHOUT or use excessive punctuation (e.g. ! and ?) in topic titles or posts.
(9) Members should use an appropriate, descriptive title when posting a new topic. Examples of bad titles include; "Help me!", "I'm stuck!", "I've got an error!", etc. Examples of good titles include; "New Game: Perseus - SomeOtherPlayer", "Two Knights Defense: Fritz Variation and sidelines", etc.
(10) Spam is not tolerated here under any circumstance.
(11) Continuously linking your own website to promote it is not allowed. You may use your signature (which will come up beneath all your posts) for this purpose.
(12) Members should refrain from posting without adding to the discussion. Posting just to increase postcount is not allowed.
(13) Combine your comments into one post rather than making many consecutive posts to a thread within a short period of time. This can be done by clicking the 'edit' button next to your post.
If your last post, which is the last in the thread, is very old you may use the following trick to make sure it's bumped up to the new posts. Click on the 'edit' button of your last post. Copy the content of the post. Click delete and delete your last post. Paste the content of the now-deleted post in a new post, add what you will and click 'submit reply'.
(13a) You are not allowed to make consecutive posts. If you post more than once without a reply from another user, all posts after the first will be deleted.
(13b) Exceptions may be made for specific types of threads.
(14) Warez are intellectual property (software/music/movies/tv-series/tv-shows/etc) either through download, serial, or crack in a manner that breaks its copyright and/or license. You are not allowed to give/link to/ask for/advocate/provide information for obtaining and the use of warez.
Bittorrent links are not allowed.
(14a) The following international treaties apply:
-Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works (Berne Convention) (Berne, 1886)
-Universal Copyright Convention (UCC) (Geneva, 1952)
-Agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights (TRIPS) (Marrakesh, 1994)
-World Intellectual Property Organization Copyright Treaty (WIPO Copyright Treaty) (Geneva, 1996)
(15) Books published before 1920 are considered free of copyright and e-books thereof are not warez. Books published after 1920 with permission from the author are considered free of copyright and e-books thereof are not warez provided it can within reason be established that permission has been given. All other books are considered copyrighted and e-books thereof are considered warez.
(16) Usernames that contain obscene or vulgar language or denigrate individuals and/or organisations are not allowed.
(17) Users may only delete their own posts on the grounds that they constitute a severe breach of these rules. Even when this is the case, the editing of the post to effect repairs must at all times be considered first.
The emptying of posts (substituting the content by non-content) is explicitely considered a breach of this rule.
Deletion of whole batches of posts harms thread continuity and the forum as a whole and the Moderation team will take action; in the most extreme case an account may be permanently banned to preserve the posted.
(18) Administrators (Admins) and Moderators (Mods) reserve the right to edit or remove any post at any time. The determination of what is construed as indecent, vulgar, spam, etc. is up to them and not to forum members.
(19) Aforementioned Admins and Mods reserve the right to edit this list of rules at anytime.
See more
See less

Tactics corner - puzzle 50

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by fischerman_bob View Post
    I'm confused. Why 4...Nc5?? Why not 4...Nf5! It seems to me to hold for black.
    Nxf5
    Skype chess coaching? Send a message!
    Ever heard of The Hook and Ladder trick? Please refer to the famous game by Andriej Hook and James Ladder.
    Play as if you didn't understand chess. People always fear what they don't understand.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Meer View Post
      I used an engine to take over the game after the sequence you proposed, and still, after a while, black manages to endure and use the queenside to attack white and force queen's exchange, then use the extra material to wipe out the leftovers. Either the engine is not that good to plan a strong attack for white before black manages to do this, or maybe white's perspective is very very optimistic here...
      Perhaps both. Let's see:
      1. Ng4 Ng3 2. Qg2 Nxf1 3. Rxf1 b5 4. g6 fxg6 5. hxg6 h6 6. Ng5 b4 7. Be1 Qb6 8. Bf2 Qc6 9. Be3 b3 10. axb3 cxb3 11. c3 a5 12. Nf7 Re7 13. f5 exf5 14. Rxf5 Qe6 15. Rf3 white is winning
      1. Ng4 Ng3 2. Qg2 Nxf1 3. Rxf1 Rc6 4. g6 fxg6 5. hxg6 h6 6. Ng5 Qe7 7. Nf7 Rb8 8. Rf3 b5 9. Rh3 b4 10. Be1 b3 11. axb3 cxb3 12. c3 Rb7 white is winning
      1. Ng4 Ng3 2. Qg2 Nxf1 3. Rxf1 Qb6 4. g6 fxg6 5. hxg6 h6 6. Ng5 Bb4 7. Nf7 Bxc3 8. bxc3 Rf8 9. Qh3 Rxf7 10. gxf7+ Kxf7 11. Qh5+ Ke7 12. Qg6 Re8 13. f5 white is winning

      There are definitely lines which offer more resistance, but that's what's going on in nutshell.
      Last edited by stachu71; 12-01-2013, 03:13 PM.
      Skype chess coaching? Send a message!
      Ever heard of The Hook and Ladder trick? Please refer to the famous game by Andriej Hook and James Ladder.
      Play as if you didn't understand chess. People always fear what they don't understand.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by stachu71 View Post
        Perhaps both. Let's see:
        1. Ng4 Ng3 2. Qg2 Nxf1 3. Rxf1 b5 4. g6 fxg6 5. hxg6 h6 6. Ng5 b4 7. Be1 Qb6 8. Bf2 Qc6 9. Be3 b3 10. axb3 cxb3 11. c3 a5 12. Nf7 Re7 13. f5 exf5 14. Rxf5 Qe6 15. Rf3 white is winning
        1. Ng4 Ng3 2. Qg2 Nxf1 3. Rxf1 Rc6 4. g6 fxg6 5. hxg6 h6 6. Ng5 Qe7 7. Nf7 Rb8 8. Rf3 b5 9. Rh3 b4 10. Be1 b3 11. axb3 cxb3 12. c3 Rb7 white is winning
        1. Ng4 Ng3 2. Qg2 Nxf1 3. Rxf1 Qb6 4. g6 fxg6 5. hxg6 h6 6. Ng5 Bb4 7. Nf7 Bxc3 8. bxc3 Rf8 9. Qh3 Rxf7 10. gxf7+ Kxf7 11. Qh5+ Ke7 12. Qg6 Re8 13. f5 white is winning

        There are definitely lines which offer more resistance, but that's what's going on in nutshell.
        Well, I think I definitely must find a stronger engine, coz this one still says blackies are the chosen ones while analysing the first sequence...

        1. Ng4 Ng3 2. Qg2 Nxf1 3. Rxf1 b5 4. g6 fxg6 5. hxg6 h6 6. Ng5 b4 7. Be1 Qb6 8. Bf2 Qc6 9. Be3 b3 10. axb3 cxb3 11. c3 a5 12. Nf7 Re7 13. f5 exf5 14. Rxf5 Qe6 15. Rf3

        a4 {+1.77/12} 16. Nd6 {-1.83/11} Rc6 {+1.86/10} 17. Rg3 {-1.82/10} Nb6 {+1.81/11} 18. Bf4 {-1.83/11} Rcc7 {+1.78/11} 19. Nf2 {-1.71/11} a3 {+2.37/12} 20. bxa3 {-2.44/12} b2 {+2.36/12} 21. Qf1 {-2.67/13} Rxc3 {+2.67/12} 22. Qb1 {-2.69/13} Rxg3+ {+3.28/14} 23. Bxg3 {-3.33/14} Na4 {+4.04/14} 24. Bf4 {-3.34/13} Rc7 {+4.59/13} 25. Kg2 {-4.54/13} Rc3 {+5.19/12} 26. Nb5 {-5.68/12} Bxa3 {+6.69/13} 27. Nxc3 {-6.75/12} Nxc3 {+7.52/14} 28. Qc2 {-7.71/14} Qc6 {+7.55/13} 29. Bd2 {-8.62/13} b1=Q {+8.69/14} 30. Qxc3 {-8.79/14} Qxc3 {+8.25/15} 31. Bxc3 {-8.29/14} Qc2 {+8.30/13} 32. Be1 {-8.77/14} Bb2 {+8.85/13} 33. e6 {-9.22/13} Qe2 {+10.19/14} 34. Bb4 {-10.63/15} Bxd4 {+10.84/15} 35. e7 {-11.12/15} Qxf2+ {+10.82/14} 36. Kh3 {-79.94/17} Qf5+ {+11.45/14} 37. Kg2 {-11.46/14} Qxg6+ {+11.47/13} 38. Kf1 {-13.03/13} Kf7 {+13.70/13} 39. e8=Q+ {-13.64/13} Kxe8 {+14.17/14} 40. Be1 {-14.29/12} Qd3+ {+14.94/12} 41. Kg2 {-79.94/14} Qe2+ {+79.94/13} 42. Kh1 {-79.95/16} Qxe1+ {+79.95/15} 43. Kg2 {-79.96/28} Qe3 {+79.96/28} 44. Kh2 {-79.97/28} Qg1+ {+79.97/28} 45. Kh3 {-79.98/28} h5 {+79.98/28} 46. Kh4 {-79.99/28} Qg4# {+79.99/28}

        I haven't checked the later ones... Could you tell me which move in this sequence is actually a weak move for black and how white could use it to turn the beat around? I think I (and also my engine) am not that powerful to see the magic behind the lines you're proposing. I know I still have much to learn, but I'd rather learn from an experienced human than from a short-sight engine.
        Don't drive faster than your guardian angel can fly.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Meer View Post
          Well, I think I definitely must find a stronger engine, coz this one still says blackies are the chosen ones while analysing the first sequence...
          Yeah well..........it happens when the programmers try to implement chess ideas or principles in a chess engine. In programming strings, integers or whatever you chose as a basis for the engine must be well defined (either 0 or 1, but not within parameters), and the latter is what we would like to actually see (cos it depends on the position etc.). For instance, two bishops on adjacent diagonals covering most of the board can be worth a queen, but the board must be and remain open and bishops must be and remain safe. All this is quite mind-boggling when tried to be expressed in a programming language.

          Originally posted by Meer View Post
          15..a4
          This move suggest that the engine understand the concept of a passed pawn and in general 'plays' as to get a lot of space advantage. BUT it either does this or does not. We know that it should depend on a position........and this is and always will be a problem in chess programming. I would assume quantum mechanics could solve this because of a concept of qubit (the value taken can be 0 and 1, but it can also be a superposition of first two states), but it's a long way to go.

          Anyways, the move loses to Bxh6, the sample line is:
          15..a4 16. Bxh6 Rc6 17. Nd8 Qxg6 18. Nxc6 Qxc6 19. Nf6+ Nxf6 20. exf6 Rf7 21. fxg7 Qxh6 22. Rxf7 Qc1+ 23. Rf1 Qe3+ 24. Qf2 Qg5+ 25. Kh2 Bxg7 26. Qg3 Qd2+ 27.Rf2 Qh6+ 28. Kg2 Qh5
          Better is to defend with 15..h5, but now:
          16. Nf2 Rc6 17. Nd8 Qxg6 18. Nxc6 Qxc6 19. Nd3 should be enough to secure strong advantage.

          BTW, the whole idea with this bishop maneuver was to add another attacker on h6 square
          Last edited by stachu71; 12-02-2013, 09:18 PM.
          Skype chess coaching? Send a message!
          Ever heard of The Hook and Ladder trick? Please refer to the famous game by Andriej Hook and James Ladder.
          Play as if you didn't understand chess. People always fear what they don't understand.

          Comment


          • #20
            Thanks... that widened my sight of the concepts behind the position way better. There's so much I have to learn :/...

            Thanks!
            Don't drive faster than your guardian angel can fly.

            Comment


            • #21
              To close it up, I call the tactical theme 'replacement' and the tactic is played by the opponent. It all comes down to giving material to gain even more time (and often activity as a result). After 1. Ng4 Ng3 2. Qg2 Nxf1 3. Rxf1 we play the exact same position to the starting one except our knight is closer to the king and queen position is improved. Black's answer doesn't even count.
              Skype chess coaching? Send a message!
              Ever heard of The Hook and Ladder trick? Please refer to the famous game by Andriej Hook and James Ladder.
              Play as if you didn't understand chess. People always fear what they don't understand.

              Comment


              • #22
                Over 1000...
                Last edited by stachu71; 05-15-2014, 05:50 PM.
                Skype chess coaching? Send a message!
                Ever heard of The Hook and Ladder trick? Please refer to the famous game by Andriej Hook and James Ladder.
                Play as if you didn't understand chess. People always fear what they don't understand.

                Comment

                Working...
                X