Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules

Forum rules

(1) Posts are to be made in the relevant forum. Users are asked to read the forum descriptions before posting.
(2) Off topic posts are limited to active members who have actually posted on-topic in one of the chess-oriented sections in the past. Any user whose first post does not relate to chess will be banned permanently. Posts in the Introduction section do not count.
(3) Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users. Be tolerant at any time. Flaming or abusing users in any way will not be tolerated.
(4) Discussions on political and religious topics are not allowed. Posts containing elements thereof will be redacted or deleted and a temporary or permanent ban may be placed upon the user.
Discussions on politics in chess organisations and the way politics affect chess are allowed.
(4a) Drug use references are not allowed and discussions on drugs are not allowed.
(5) Members are asked to not act as "back seat moderators". If members have something to report they are welcome to bring it to the attention of moderator either by a PM or in this thread: http://www.chessforums.org/forum-new...moderator.html
(6) If you wish to report a PM please forward the PM to a moderator and leave a post here: http://www.chessforums.org/forum-new...moderator.html. Don't hesitate to report a PM if you believe it violates the forum rules, even if someone else has already reported a (similar) PM by the same user; having more reports makes it easier for the moderators to take action.
(7) These rules apply to forum posts as well as private messages (PMs).
(8) Members should post in a way which is consistent with "normal writing". That is users should not post excessive numbers of emoticons (smilies), large, small or coloured text, etc. Similarly users should not SHOUT or use excessive punctuation (e.g. ! and ?) in topic titles or posts.
(9) Members should use an appropriate, descriptive title when posting a new topic. Examples of bad titles include; "Help me!", "I'm stuck!", "I've got an error!", etc. Examples of good titles include; "New Game: Perseus - SomeOtherPlayer", "Two Knights Defense: Fritz Variation and sidelines", etc.
(10) Spam is not tolerated here under any circumstance.
(11) Continuously linking your own website to promote it is not allowed. You may use your signature (which will come up beneath all your posts) for this purpose.
(12) Members should refrain from posting without adding to the discussion. Posting just to increase postcount is not allowed.
(13) Combine your comments into one post rather than making many consecutive posts to a thread within a short period of time. This can be done by clicking the 'edit' button next to your post.
If your last post, which is the last in the thread, is very old you may use the following trick to make sure it's bumped up to the new posts. Click on the 'edit' button of your last post. Copy the content of the post. Click delete and delete your last post. Paste the content of the now-deleted post in a new post, add what you will and click 'submit reply'.
(13a) You are not allowed to make consecutive posts. If you post more than once without a reply from another user, all posts after the first will be deleted.
(13b) Exceptions may be made for specific types of threads.
(14) Warez are intellectual property (software/music/movies/tv-series/tv-shows/etc) either through download, serial, or crack in a manner that breaks its copyright and/or license. You are not allowed to give/link to/ask for/advocate/provide information for obtaining and the use of warez.
Bittorrent links are not allowed.
(14a) The following international treaties apply:
-Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works (Berne Convention) (Berne, 1886)
-Universal Copyright Convention (UCC) (Geneva, 1952)
-Agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights (TRIPS) (Marrakesh, 1994)
-World Intellectual Property Organization Copyright Treaty (WIPO Copyright Treaty) (Geneva, 1996)
(15) Books published before 1920 are considered free of copyright and e-books thereof are not warez. Books published after 1920 with permission from the author are considered free of copyright and e-books thereof are not warez provided it can within reason be established that permission has been given. All other books are considered copyrighted and e-books thereof are considered warez.
(16) Usernames that contain obscene or vulgar language or denigrate individuals and/or organisations are not allowed.
(17) Users may only delete their own posts on the grounds that they constitute a severe breach of these rules. Even when this is the case, the editing of the post to effect repairs must at all times be considered first.
The emptying of posts (substituting the content by non-content) is explicitely considered a breach of this rule.
Deletion of whole batches of posts harms thread continuity and the forum as a whole and the Moderation team will take action; in the most extreme case an account may be permanently banned to preserve the posted.
(18) Administrators (Admins) and Moderators (Mods) reserve the right to edit or remove any post at any time. The determination of what is construed as indecent, vulgar, spam, etc. is up to them and not to forum members.
(19) Aforementioned Admins and Mods reserve the right to edit this list of rules at anytime.
See more
See less

Advice, black defense against d4,Nf3 or c4

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Advice, black defense against d4,Nf3 or c4

    I want a one opening fits all defense against 1.d4 , 1.Nf3 and 1.c4, since I don't want to bother with all the different lines you have to learn when you have seperate defenses against each.

    any recommendations?

  • #2
    I play the Dutch against all of them. The Tarrasch is another option.

    --Fromper

    "Don't be afraid of ghosts! Always play the moves you want to play unless you see a genuine tactical drawback." --Grandmaster Neil McDonald

    Comment


    • #3
      I would suggest Kings Indian. I think here only you dont have any serious pawn weakness.

      Comment


      • #4
        Modern defense is another option.
        " Deep calculation is not what distinguishes the champions. It does not matter how far ahead you see if you don't understand what you are looking at. When I contemplate my move, I first must consider all the elements in the position so that i can develop a strategy and develop intermediate objectives"

        -- Garry Kasparov--

        "Tactics must be guided by strategy"

        --- Garry Kasparov--

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Fromper View Post
          I play the Dutch against all of them. The Tarrasch is another option.

          --Fromper
          do you play a stonewall dutch or a leningrad? also, can you play the tarrasch against moves like Nf3, C4, g3, Bg2 etc?

          Comment


          • #6
            what about the queens indian? does anyone play that? is that a one size fits all black defense?

            Comment


            • #7
              I play 1. ... c6 to 1.e4, d4 ,c4 Nf3 Nc3 leading into the caro-kann or the slav.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by cascade View Post
                do you play a stonewall dutch or a leningrad? also, can you play the tarrasch against moves like Nf3, C4, g3, Bg2 etc?
                I play the Classical Dutch (pawn on f5, e6, and d6, usually).

                And yes, the Tarrasch works against just about anything but 1. e4. You just have to change up the move order a little. Against 1. d4, you play d5, e6, and c5 in that order. Against 1. c4, you'll probably play e6 before d5. The point is that after about 8 moves, you'll end up in the standard Tarrasch position, regardless of move order.

                --Fromper

                "Don't be afraid of ghosts! Always play the moves you want to play unless you see a genuine tactical drawback." --Grandmaster Neil McDonald

                Comment


                • #9
                  You can play the KID, Tarrasch, Queen's Gambit Declined, Slav, Modern, Old Indian, Owen's, Stonewall and Dutch against 1.d4, 1.c4 and 1.Nf3. However, you might need to be careful with your move orders against the Flank Openings, e.g. a player could try to move order you out of a King's Indian with say 1.b3 Nf6 2.Bb2 d5 3.e3 c5 4.Nf3 e6 5.d4 Nc6 6.Bd3.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    How about 1...g6 ?
                    I float like a pawn island and sting like an ignored knight

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ketchuplover View Post
                      How about 1...g6 ?
                      1. d4 g6 is the Modern and yes you can play that

                      My advise would be to throw 1. c4, 1. d4 and 1. Nf3 on a pile, pick one way of handling all three and you're good to go, they just become variations of your system. Many transpositions are possible.

                      Personally, the Classical Dutch which Fromper already mentioned, is my choice against 1. d4 and anything else not 1. e4.
                      The All-Purpose defense (referred to as the Tarrasch by most because it's basically the Tarrasch QGD) is my second choice against everything not 1. e4. The QID would be my third choice to handle c4/d4/Nf3. I've played all three.

                      Some notes with that, the Dutch requires you know what to do against the anti-Dutch lines with e4 and/or g4. The QID (starting with Nf6 rather than risking transposition into e4-territory) and Dutch players both need to seriously look at the 2. Bg5 lines. A thing to keep in mind in the Tarrasch is that you can adapt your move order sometimes (when white strays from main lines) to allow to opponent to mess up and/or let the bishop come out outside the pawn chain before e6.
                      Have you read the Forum rules?

                      Queeg: Pawn to King Four. Holly: Horsie to King Bish Three.
                      Rimmer: It's called a "knight," actually, Holly...
                      Queeg: Knight to King Bishop three. Holly: Queen to Rook Eight. Checkmate.
                      Queeg: That's an illegal move. Holly: Oh, sorry. Queens don't move like that. I was thinking of poker.
                      Holly: Cleudo? You could be Colonel Mustard.
                      Cat: If it's any help, I've been studying his tactics and there's a pattern emerging: Every time you make a move, he makes one too. *Winks to Holly*
                      Holly: *Winks back* Thanks, Cat.
                      --Red Dwarf

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I agree with whoever said 1...c6, Slav setup
                        you play the c6, d5, bf5, nf6, e6 setup against all 3.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Perseus View Post
                          1. d4 g6 is the Modern and yes you can play that

                          My advise would be to throw 1. c4, 1. d4 and 1. Nf3 on a pile, pick one way of handling all three and you're good to go, they just become variations of your system. Many transpositions are possible.

                          Personally, the Classical Dutch which Fromper already mentioned, is my choice against 1. d4 and anything else not 1. e4.
                          The All-Purpose defense (referred to as the Tarrasch by most because it's basically the Tarrasch QGD) is my second choice against everything not 1. e4. The QID would be my third choice to handle c4/d4/Nf3. I've played all three.

                          Some notes with that, the Dutch requires you know what to do against the anti-Dutch lines with e4 and/or g4. The QID (starting with Nf6 rather than risking transposition into e4-territory) and Dutch players both need to seriously look at the 2. Bg5 lines. A thing to keep in mind in the Tarrasch is that you can adapt your move order sometimes (when white strays from main lines) to allow to opponent to mess up and/or let the bishop come out outside the pawn chain before e6.
                          I like the idea of playing the tarrasch against all 3, however, how does it do against the likes of the colle? which i have heard that you are asking for it , by developing normally and castling kingside.

                          also, what about against catalan/reti type openings. is it okay there too?

                          thanks for your help!!!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by cascade View Post
                            I like the idea of playing the tarrasch against all 3, however, how does it do against the likes of the colle? which i have heard that you are asking for it , by developing normally and castling kingside.

                            also, what about against catalan/reti type openings. is it okay there too?

                            thanks for your help!!!
                            Which Colle? The Colle-Koltanowski (c3) or the Colle-Zukertort (b3)? There's an old thread lying around I'll quote part of my own post. This is about the Colle with c3.
                            Originally posted by Perseus View Post
                            “The All-Purpose Defense (1)”
                            1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 d5 3. e3 c5 4. c3 e6
                            {A bit stody, but it’s solid}
                            5. Bd3 Bd6
                            {Black should look to play e5 constantly, this furthers that effort}
                            6. Nbd2 Nbd7
                            {Nbd2 to get in e4 for white, the bishop on c1 is hemmed in, this isn’t so much of a problem since it will come out later. For black, Nbd7 is a little passive, I would recommend Nc6 instead, but this line is fine as well.}
                            7. O-O O-O 8. Re1 Re8
                            {White’s moves are extremely easy to find, this is what people like about the Colle. Time for white’s thematic move.}
                            9. e4 exd5
                            {Black had to do something because e5 was threatened which would push black ‘off the board’.}
                            10. Nxe4 Nxe4 11. Bxe4 cxd4
                            {Looking to leave white with an isolated pawn and play Nf6 which is why the knight went to d7. Maybe not such a good idea! Black’s kingside has no defenders. This may be sound or not for white, what is beyond question is that black has a tough time defending.}
                            12. Bxh7+ Kxh7 13. Ng5+ Kg6
                            {13. … Kg8 would have been fatal immediately}
                            14. h4 Rh8
                            {Contesting white on the h-file. White follows with a sacrifice to get at the king but black won’t take it.}
                            15. Rxe6 Nf6 16. h5+ Kh6 17. Rxd6 Qa5
                            {17. Rxd6 is hotly debated, but black doesn’t take it.}
                            18. Nxf7+ Kh7 19. Ng5+ Kg8 20. Qb3+ {Game over. Black maybe has to try and play e5 in one shot.}

                            “The All-Purpose Defense (2)”
                            1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 d5 3. e3 e6 4. Bd3 c5 5. c3 Bd6 6. O-O Qc7 7. Nbd2 Nf6
                            {This is a little more active in light of later exchanges. }
                            8. dxc5 Bxc5 9. e4 O-O
                            {Black doesn’t have to exchange here. White doesn’t want to exchange on d5, can’t play e5 since that square is defended. Both sides maneuver pieces to hit the e5 square.}
                            10. Qe2 Bd6 11. Re1 Ng4
                            {Here comes that Ng4 idea again. Black contests the central squares.}
                            12. h3 Ne5 13. Nxe5 Nxe5
                            {White wants to deal with the pawn first.}
                            14. exd5 Nxd3 15. Qxd3 Rd8
                            {Go for development! The rook opposite the queen is never to be underestimated. The exd5 is threatened because white cannot recapture with the queen as Bh2+ would be the end of the game.}
                            16. Nf3 Be7 17. c4 exd5 18. cxd5 Be6
                            {The pawn is pinned.}
                            19. Qe4 Rxd5 20. Nd4 Qc4 21. Nf5 Qxe4 22. Nxe7+ Kf8 23. Rxe4 Kxe7
                            {Equal.}
                            This works just fine against the b3 stuff as well in my experience. It works against the Catalan and Réti too, you'll have to be a little careful about the exchanges in the center if white comes at it with c4 and d4, which is why it's a good thing to know the Tarrasch QGD when you play this.
                            Have you read the Forum rules?

                            Queeg: Pawn to King Four. Holly: Horsie to King Bish Three.
                            Rimmer: It's called a "knight," actually, Holly...
                            Queeg: Knight to King Bishop three. Holly: Queen to Rook Eight. Checkmate.
                            Queeg: That's an illegal move. Holly: Oh, sorry. Queens don't move like that. I was thinking of poker.
                            Holly: Cleudo? You could be Colonel Mustard.
                            Cat: If it's any help, I've been studying his tactics and there's a pattern emerging: Every time you make a move, he makes one too. *Winks to Holly*
                            Holly: *Winks back* Thanks, Cat.
                            --Red Dwarf

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Yeah, I was thinking of that Colle (c3), which can get a little hairy. Like in Game 1 above. Sound or not I don't want to be defending that position.

                              Looks like Bd6 is a key move.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X