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English Opening

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  • English Opening

    Does anybody here play it, what's your experience so far with it?
    Are you more comfortable facing 1.e4/d4 or English opening?
    " Deep calculation is not what distinguishes the champions. It does not matter how far ahead you see if you don't understand what you are looking at. When I contemplate my move, I first must consider all the elements in the position so that i can develop a strategy and develop intermediate objectives"

    -- Garry Kasparov--

    "Tactics must be guided by strategy"

    --- Garry Kasparov--

  • #2
    Originally posted by ryan_c View Post
    Does anybody here play it, what's your experience so far with it?
    Are you more comfortable facing 1.e4/d4 or English opening?
    I've very minimal experience playing it, a great deal more facing it. I find it to be quiet, positional and in general not to my taste. It's solid and won't get you into trouble (rightaway), it can get sharp in Reversed Sicilians but mmh..

    The only point of interest, to put it that way, for me is the possible transpositions. I'm a Dutch defender, I'm happy with 1.c4 f5 2.d4 for instance. There are English attackers that don't play d4 at all, still I have to take that into account.

    If d4 isn't played, I'm generally speaking more comfortable than 1.d4; without d4 there's no d5. I'm less worried than against 1.e4 for both 1.d4 and 1.c4, but 1.e4 is stylistically more to my liking..
    Have you read the Forum rules?

    Queeg: Pawn to King Four. Holly: Horsie to King Bish Three.
    Rimmer: It's called a "knight," actually, Holly...
    Queeg: Knight to King Bishop three. Holly: Queen to Rook Eight. Checkmate.
    Queeg: That's an illegal move. Holly: Oh, sorry. Queens don't move like that. I was thinking of poker.
    Holly: Cleudo? You could be Colonel Mustard.
    Cat: If it's any help, I've been studying his tactics and there's a pattern emerging: Every time you make a move, he makes one too. *Winks to Holly*
    Holly: *Winks back* Thanks, Cat.
    --Red Dwarf

    Comment


    • #3
      Funny enough I'm actually in the same boat as Perseus in some ways.

      I play f5 against d4, and generally reply f5 against c4 as well. c4 f5 d4 makes me extremely happy.

      However there was one game where white didn't play d4, and I waited for him to play this, and developed like usualy along the classical dutch lines (e6, Nf6, Be7, d6, etc.) and then in the end he played d3 instead. I ended up wasting a tempo "preparing" e5 when I could have just played it immediately.
      I got tricked into a transposition of the English with a tempo down apparently.

      Perseus: If your opponent doesn't play d4 do you play e5 right away? How do you go about playing the Dutch against the English if they don't play d4.

      Additionally, f5 doesn't fare well against Nf3 apparently, and I intend to mostly just revert back to the Nimzo Indian/Queen's Indian Lines against this.

      And I've thought about playing Nf6 against c4, but it could run into some of the same things where I'm trying to prevent e4, but can't easily because of d3 being played instead of d4.

      I find the English very quiet, especially if you play c5 against it. Unfortunately for me, I find it too quiet to play as black when I'm higher rated than my opponent and need to try to win as black.

      So overally, I'm more comfortable playing against d4 and e4 than c4.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Perseus View Post
        I've very minimal experience playing it, a great deal more facing it. I find it to be quiet, positional and in general not to my taste. It's solid and won't get you into trouble (rightaway), it can get sharp in Reversed Sicilians but mmh..

        The only point of interest, to put it that way, for me is the possible transpositions. I'm a Dutch defender, I'm happy with 1.c4 f5 2.d4 for instance. There are English attackers that don't play d4 at all, still I have to take that into account.

        If d4 isn't played, I'm generally speaking more comfortable than 1.d4; without d4 there's no d5. I'm less worried than against 1.e4 for both 1.d4 and 1.c4, but 1.e4 is stylistically more to my liking..
        Yeah the general view is English is quite positional, but looking at the games of Gulko, Suba and Korchnoi they have great attacking games with English. Regarding f5, yeah there are english players that does not play d4 against the dutch, they choose the botvinnik set up instead.
        " Deep calculation is not what distinguishes the champions. It does not matter how far ahead you see if you don't understand what you are looking at. When I contemplate my move, I first must consider all the elements in the position so that i can develop a strategy and develop intermediate objectives"

        -- Garry Kasparov--

        "Tactics must be guided by strategy"

        --- Garry Kasparov--

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by DevastatioN View Post
          Funny enough I'm actually in the same boat as Perseus in some ways.

          I play f5 against d4, and generally reply f5 against c4 as well. c4 f5 d4 makes me extremely happy.

          However there was one game where white didn't play d4, and I waited for him to play this, and developed like usualy along the classical dutch lines (e6, Nf6, Be7, d6, etc.) and then in the end he played d3 instead. I ended up wasting a tempo "preparing" e5 when I could have just played it immediately.
          I got tricked into a transposition of the English with a tempo down apparently.

          Perseus: If your opponent doesn't play d4 do you play e5 right away? How do you go about playing the Dutch against the English if they don't play d4.

          Additionally, f5 doesn't fare well against Nf3 apparently, and I intend to mostly just revert back to the Nimzo Indian/Queen's Indian Lines against this.

          And I've thought about playing Nf6 against c4, but it could run into some of the same things where I'm trying to prevent e4, but can't easily because of d3 being played instead of d4.

          I find the English very quiet, especially if you play c5 against it. Unfortunately for me, I find it too quiet to play as black when I'm higher rated than my opponent and need to try to win as black.

          So overally, I'm more comfortable playing against d4 and e4 than c4.
          My general rule of thumb (trial and error):
          If there's no d4 by move 3, play e5: 1.c4 f5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.g3 e5

          Not that it is bad in all other cases, but you're not in the kind of Dutch position you might want to be in.
          Have you read the Forum rules?

          Queeg: Pawn to King Four. Holly: Horsie to King Bish Three.
          Rimmer: It's called a "knight," actually, Holly...
          Queeg: Knight to King Bishop three. Holly: Queen to Rook Eight. Checkmate.
          Queeg: That's an illegal move. Holly: Oh, sorry. Queens don't move like that. I was thinking of poker.
          Holly: Cleudo? You could be Colonel Mustard.
          Cat: If it's any help, I've been studying his tactics and there's a pattern emerging: Every time you make a move, he makes one too. *Winks to Holly*
          Holly: *Winks back* Thanks, Cat.
          --Red Dwarf

          Comment


          • #6
            I have experience as white. According to Roman, which is only implied, one of the best ways is to force white into a reti, or queens gambit decline with e6 or c6.

            My personal experiences the only major problems I had were kings Indian set ups. Not saying I lost a lot or didn't understand them just they felt more dangerous when playing against them. That you probably be related to the Dutch defenders cause they tend to hyper accelerate the set up.

            Cool post cause English is in my basic rep. Was my strongest opening back in my rise through the C-A sections. I loved it.

            Roman on his introduction DVD recommends an exchange line where you trade off the f6 knight for the c1 bishop and then fight for the d5 square. Maybe with some prep that plan is okay against Dutch people but I don't think it challenges them. Roman is a bit single minded on recommended theoreticals. But he does make it easy.

            Is there a reason Kasparov was left out in English attackers? Just curious.
            I am a proud supporter of the GM Igor Smirnov way of teaching. If you would like to see the system and want to try out his teaching methods please follow this link: http://chess-teacher.com/affiliates/...?id=1517_2_3_1

            If you have questions/want a tutor inquire with messages. I am going to rewrite my web page and it will also go here.

            Comment


            • #7
              I play the Reti, which many times transposes to an English due to c4 being a big part of most lines. Really, it’s just like any other opening: don’t blunder.
              Alexander Alekhine is my chess hero.

              An eerie chess short story: The Empty Chair

              My newest chess story: Gamble: A Supernatural Chess Tale

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Skwerly View Post
                I play the Reti, which many times transposes to an English due to c4 being a big part of most lines. Really, itís just like any other opening: donít blunder.
                That is easy to say when you only consider only immediate dropping of pieces and pawns blunders. When more subtle blunders come in to play makes it harder. That is how I kept losing the importance games in my last Vegas tournament silly long term blunders. Hopefully I will make less of them in this one.
                I am a proud supporter of the GM Igor Smirnov way of teaching. If you would like to see the system and want to try out his teaching methods please follow this link: http://chess-teacher.com/affiliates/...?id=1517_2_3_1

                If you have questions/want a tutor inquire with messages. I am going to rewrite my web page and it will also go here.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by CookieMonster View Post
                  I have experience as white. According to Roman, which is only implied, one of the best ways is to force white into a reti, or queens gambit decline with e6 or c6.

                  My personal experiences the only major problems I had were kings Indian set ups. Not saying I lost a lot or didn't understand them just they felt more dangerous when playing against them. That you probably be related to the Dutch defenders cause they tend to hyper accelerate the set up.

                  Cool post cause English is in my basic rep. Was my strongest opening back in my rise through the C-A sections. I loved it.

                  Roman on his introduction DVD recommends an exchange line where you trade off the f6 knight for the c1 bishop and then fight for the d5 square. Maybe with some prep that plan is okay against Dutch people but I don't think it challenges them. Roman is a bit single minded on recommended theoreticals. But he does make it easy.

                  Is there a reason Kasparov was left out in English attackers? Just curious.
                  Bg5-Bxf6 planning d5, I really approve of that idea in general. Trading the knight off might take away some white edge, but it makes play for black harder. Most Dutch defenders are very fond of that knight that can go to all sorts of cool places and keeps the boogiemen (d5 and e4) at bay.

                  I've seen some of Roman's material before, he does get a little to crazy about his own lines. Ideas are more imortant, I think on that we can all agree.

                  When I'm black in c4-f5 and white lets me setup a Classical Dutch defence with e5 in (in one go or otherwise), I tend to be happy. White might get his own setup in as well, hey, that's fine. What's really neat for the Classical Dutch for me is that I also play the Modern Steinitz against the Ruy Lopez (huh? how are those at all related?). Well, if you play e5, Nc6, a6, d6 and get in f5 early, that's like a Dutch with e5.
                  Have you read the Forum rules?

                  Queeg: Pawn to King Four. Holly: Horsie to King Bish Three.
                  Rimmer: It's called a "knight," actually, Holly...
                  Queeg: Knight to King Bishop three. Holly: Queen to Rook Eight. Checkmate.
                  Queeg: That's an illegal move. Holly: Oh, sorry. Queens don't move like that. I was thinking of poker.
                  Holly: Cleudo? You could be Colonel Mustard.
                  Cat: If it's any help, I've been studying his tactics and there's a pattern emerging: Every time you make a move, he makes one too. *Winks to Holly*
                  Holly: *Winks back* Thanks, Cat.
                  --Red Dwarf

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by CookieMonster View Post
                    That is easy to say when you only consider only immediate dropping of pieces and pawns blunders. When more subtle blunders come in to play makes it harder. That is how I kept losing the importance games in my last Vegas tournament silly long term blunders. Hopefully I will make less of them in this one.
                    Does that mean you'll be studying openings?
                    Alexander Alekhine is my chess hero.

                    An eerie chess short story: The Empty Chair

                    My newest chess story: Gamble: A Supernatural Chess Tale

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ryan_c View Post
                      Does anybody here play it, what's your experience so far with it?
                      Are you more comfortable facing 1.e4/d4 or English opening?
                      1. I've considered playing it, although I don't like the possibility of facing 1. c4 e5. I could certainly try to find something that works by trial and error, but that's my entire opening repertoire right now .
                      2. I'm mostly comfortable in facing the English. I usually stick with this formation:

                      It's a bit passive, but more often than not it works as a starting point for the important parts of my chess games that I need improvement on: middlegame tactics, planning, and strategy.
                      Brick walls hurt, but are effective for banging against repeatedly. For future reference, cardboard walls are fun too.

                      Being a professional player is something akin to being a prostitute. First I played because other people did it. Then I played because I liked to play. And finally I played just for the money. - Benko

                      Procrastination: due date = do date

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The thing with english, there are positions that are easy to grasp, they are also positions that requires deep positional understanding. The dilemma of english players is when they face 1..c6/e6, should they continue with english set up, or allow transposition into d4 openings. Marin suggest a gambit against 1..c6/e6 if you want to continue in the natural english flavor.
                        Last edited by ryan_c; 04-22-2013, 01:43 AM.
                        " Deep calculation is not what distinguishes the champions. It does not matter how far ahead you see if you don't understand what you are looking at. When I contemplate my move, I first must consider all the elements in the position so that i can develop a strategy and develop intermediate objectives"

                        -- Garry Kasparov--

                        "Tactics must be guided by strategy"

                        --- Garry Kasparov--

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Skwerly View Post
                          Does that mean you'll be studying openings?
                          Most of my openings are pretty set in stone. So no.. I will be focusing on middle game and endgame.
                          I am a proud supporter of the GM Igor Smirnov way of teaching. If you would like to see the system and want to try out his teaching methods please follow this link: http://chess-teacher.com/affiliates/...?id=1517_2_3_1

                          If you have questions/want a tutor inquire with messages. I am going to rewrite my web page and it will also go here.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ryan_c View Post
                            The thing with english, there are positions that are easy to grasp, they are also positions that requires deep positional understanding. The dilemma of english players is when they face 1..c6/e6, should they continue with english set up, or allow transposition into d4 openings. Marin suggest a gambit against 1..c6/e6 if you want to continue in the natural english flavor.
                            That's a bit surprising to me. I always go 1. c4 c6/e6 2. d4, because I would respond to 1. d4 c6/e6 with 2. c4. So it's just a transposition to me.

                            I'm also at a point with chess where I try to avoid having too many specific openings to learn. So it's more of a personal preference than anything else.
                            Brick walls hurt, but are effective for banging against repeatedly. For future reference, cardboard walls are fun too.

                            Being a professional player is something akin to being a prostitute. First I played because other people did it. Then I played because I liked to play. And finally I played just for the money. - Benko

                            Procrastination: due date = do date

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by granturismo4ad View Post
                              That's a bit surprising to me. I always go 1. c4 c6/e6 2. d4, because I would respond to 1. d4 c6/e6 with 2. c4. So it's just a transposition to me.

                              I'm also at a point with chess where I try to avoid having too many specific openings to learn. So it's more of a personal preference than anything else.
                              2. d4 is fine, the gambit Na3 is just for players who want to maintain an english flavor as Marin told, and does not want to transpose to 1.d4 openings.
                              " Deep calculation is not what distinguishes the champions. It does not matter how far ahead you see if you don't understand what you are looking at. When I contemplate my move, I first must consider all the elements in the position so that i can develop a strategy and develop intermediate objectives"

                              -- Garry Kasparov--

                              "Tactics must be guided by strategy"

                              --- Garry Kasparov--

                              Comment

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