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04-28-2008, 09:57 AM
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Posts: 115
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hardest puzzle ever in chess - got the guts to challenge?
Mystery chess puzzle that has never been solved with full consistency yet:
White to play, white or black to win
And for those who need a hint
click to show
1. e4!! c5!!!!!!!!!!
or
1. c4! c5!
or rather
1. e4!! e5???????
__________________
White
- Danish Gambit
- English Opening
- Ruy Lopez
- Smith-Morra Gambit
Black
- King's Indian Defence
- Sicilian Defence, Najdorf Variation, Dragon Variation
- Dutch Defence (surprise)
As you can see, I'm barbaric.
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06-01-2008, 06:03 PM
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#11 (permalink)
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Posts: 1,214
Thanked 73 Times in 71 Posts
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Originally Posted by SoxSexSax
I appreciate this is a 'joke' puzzle, but still, it is factually incorrect.
The ONLY puzzle that can be set from this position is White to play and draw. Chess puzzles can only assume the best response from the "losing" side or the puzzle is pointless, and with best play from both sides the starting position should always yield a draw.
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Prove it.
--Fromper
__________________
White:
Ruy Lopez Exchange
Smith-Morra Gambit
French - 3. Bd3 or Tarrasch variation
Pirc/Modern - 150 Attack
Caro Kann Exchange
Scandinavean - main line
Black:
Tarrasch Defense against anything but 1. e4
King's Gambit Declined
Two Knights Defense
Scotch - 4. ... Bc5
Ruy Lopez - Closed, Keres Variation
Ruy Lopez - Exchange, 5. ... Bg4
Decline Danish/Goring/Scotch-type Gambits with early d5
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06-01-2008, 07:41 PM
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#12 (permalink)
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Posts: 25
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I can't "conclusively" prove it, but I would point out that if anybody ever proved that theory wrong, chess would instantly become pointless...
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06-02-2008, 02:53 AM
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#13 (permalink)
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Posts: 1,214
Thanked 73 Times in 71 Posts
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If anyone conclusively proved that theory right, it would instantly become pointless, too.
Of course, checkers has been mathematically "solved" by computers, but it's not a solution that can be memorized and played out by human players, so the game is no more pointless than it ever was.
So maybe chess wouldn't be, either. But certain openings would either spike or seriously decline in popularity.
--Fromper
__________________
White:
Ruy Lopez Exchange
Smith-Morra Gambit
French - 3. Bd3 or Tarrasch variation
Pirc/Modern - 150 Attack
Caro Kann Exchange
Scandinavean - main line
Black:
Tarrasch Defense against anything but 1. e4
King's Gambit Declined
Two Knights Defense
Scotch - 4. ... Bc5
Ruy Lopez - Closed, Keres Variation
Ruy Lopez - Exchange, 5. ... Bg4
Decline Danish/Goring/Scotch-type Gambits with early d5
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06-03-2008, 11:47 AM
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#14 (permalink)
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Posts: 25
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Either way, with the ever increasing processing power available to computers, we may not be as far away from the conclusive answer as it might seem...although I am willing to bet large sums of money that the theory I originally posted will be proven correct.
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08-24-2008, 02:59 AM
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#15 (permalink)
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Posts: 81
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Originally Posted by SoxSexSax
Either way, with the ever increasing processing power available to computers, we may not be as far away from the conclusive answer as it might seem...although I am willing to bet large sums of money that the theory I originally posted will be proven correct.
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It was said that a guy took 18 years to solve checkers (using computers!), and even then, it is not fully solved.
So how long will it take to solve chess?
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08-26-2008, 03:29 AM
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#16 (permalink)
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Posts: 99
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Originally Posted by Fromper
So maybe chess wouldn't be, either. But certain openings would either spike or seriously decline in popularity.
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to avoid that (narrowing the reportoire to the openings mathematically proven "best"), they could force people to play random openings, as they actually do in checkers.
Originally Posted by 2021
It was said that a guy took 18 years to solve checkers (using computers!), and even then, it is not fully solved.
So how long will it take to solve chess?
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the computer I had like 15 years ago was 16MhZ, now it's 2800 MHz
Originally Posted by SoxSexSax
I can't "conclusively" prove it, but I would point out that if anybody ever proved that theory [that perfect play is a draw in chess] wrong, chess would instantly become pointless...
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if it was proven that - no mistakes done by either side - White should always win the game, the rules could be adjusted to allow re-mating, for example (if White mates but Black also mates the next move, it's a draw)
Last edited by Vibovit : 08-26-2008 at 03:34 AM.
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08-27-2008, 01:45 AM
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#17 (permalink)
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Posts: 81
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@vibovit:
Yes, I understand that, but chess has near endless combinations, and solving will take lots of work.
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