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View Poll Results: Any other worthwhile tries for white besides the listed after 1. e4 e5?
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Yes (explain below)
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92.31% |
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Not really
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1 |
7.69% |
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07-10-2007, 10:52 PM
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#1 (permalink)
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Posts: 110
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
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Are there any other decent openings vs e5 (1.e4) besides the Lopez, Italian & Scotch?
Just curious. Those all seemed studied to death yet I don't think 1. d4 fits my personality and besides sicilian 1 ... e5 is still the most common move, AFAIK.
BTW, I'm including the two knights as part of the Italian don't know whether that's technically right or not.
What's your opinion?
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07-10-2007, 11:05 PM
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#2 (permalink)
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Posts: 13
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
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The Caro-Kann 1...c6 and the French 1...e6 are two of the most respected defences out there. I'm a Caro-Kann man myself, but may one day switch to the French. Many of the greatest players ever have played one or both of the above.
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07-10-2007, 11:18 PM
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#3 (permalink)
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Posts: 1,410
Thanked 77 Times in 74 Posts
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Technically, the Two Knights isn't in the Italian.
//
The best defenses to 1. e4 are 1. ... e5 and the Sicilian.
In my experience the French and the Pirc are the next best thing. Followed by the Caro-Kann and Alekhine. All worth while using as your main defense, I don't think very highly of other defenses.
__________________
White:
- Ruy Lopez
- Sicilian Defense: Chekhover variation, Rossolimo variation, Delayed Alapin variation
- French Defense: Bogo-Winawer variation, Classical variation 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5 Be7 5. e5 Nfd7 6. Bxe7
- Pirc Defense: Byrne variation
Black:
- Ruy Lopez: Modern Steinitz variation
- Two Knights Defense: Fritz variation, Ulvestadt variation
- King's Gambit: Falkbeer Countergambit: Nimzowitsch variation
- Indian Defense: Nimzo-Indian Defense, Queen's Indian Defense
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07-11-2007, 12:42 AM
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#4 (permalink)
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Posts: 889
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
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Originally Posted by jovy1097
The Caro-Kann 1...c6 and the French 1...e6 are two of the most respected defences out there. I'm a Caro-Kann man myself, but may one day switch to the French. Many of the greatest players ever have played one or both of the above.
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Originally Posted by Perseus
Technically, the Two Knights isn't in the Italian.
//
The best defenses to 1. e4 are 1. ... e5 and the Sicilian.
In my experience the French and the Pirc are the next best thing. Followed by the Caro-Kann and Alekhine. All worth while using as your main defense, I don't think very highly of other defenses.
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You both didn't read his question right: He said alternative for white after 1. e4 e5, not alternatives for black after 1. e4.
There's at least one other big alternative, the King's Gambit, which used to be very popular. These days it's not seen that much anymore at the highest level, but that doesn't mean that 1... e5 players know it well.
Other, less decent alternatives are the Vienna (2. Nc3; doesn't cause black many problems), Bishop's Opening (2. Bc4; doesn't cause black many problems either), and some dubious openings involving c3 and d4: 1. e4 e5 2. d4 (Danish Gambit?), 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. c3 etc.
__________________
Gone
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07-11-2007, 01:39 AM
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#5 (permalink)
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Posts: 136
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
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The Bishop Opening or the King's Gambit are fine. According to modern theory they seem to offer equality to Black with correct play but there is a lot of scope for personal analysis. Both are quite playable at any level, of course if I play them vs an IM very likely I'll lose but hardly because of the opening 
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07-11-2007, 02:03 AM
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#6 (permalink)
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Posts: 1,410
Thanked 77 Times in 74 Posts
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Excuse me, I do tend to misread things when I've gone without tea for longer periods.
I'm a Ruy Lopez practicioner myself. I use it about 90-95% of the time, when I don't, the King's Gambit (an old love) is my choice.
The Bishop opening is fine, but not in my taste. When I tested it out, I transposed into Petrov and Boden-Kieseritsky territory a lot. Way back when I was starting out, I picked the Four Knights game. Made sense to me to just throw all the knights out. On occasion, I play it against beginners and kids.
__________________
White:
- Ruy Lopez
- Sicilian Defense: Chekhover variation, Rossolimo variation, Delayed Alapin variation
- French Defense: Bogo-Winawer variation, Classical variation 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5 Be7 5. e5 Nfd7 6. Bxe7
- Pirc Defense: Byrne variation
Black:
- Ruy Lopez: Modern Steinitz variation
- Two Knights Defense: Fritz variation, Ulvestadt variation
- King's Gambit: Falkbeer Countergambit: Nimzowitsch variation
- Indian Defense: Nimzo-Indian Defense, Queen's Indian Defense
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07-11-2007, 04:29 AM
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#7 (permalink)
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Posts: 110
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
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Any other (at least somewhat) sound gambit openings (like the king's gambit) for white against e5?
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07-11-2007, 06:15 AM
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#8 (permalink)
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Posts: 1,330
Thanked 78 Times in 76 Posts
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I just recently started playing the Vienna Gambit. I got bored with playing the Italian/Two Knights all the time (and occasional Scotch Gambit), and the Ruy Lopez has enough theory to scare me. The King's Gambit also has a ton of theory, and a lot of players are prepared for it.
The Vienna (1. e4 e5 2. Nc3), with or without the 3. f4 gambit move, is perfectly solid, even at the grandmaster level. I just like the idea of the gambit move, since I'm trying to become better at attacking. Pushing the f pawn early to either use it in a king side attack or open up the file for the rook to pressure f7 just makes sense to me.
After 1. e4 e5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. f4, black can take 3. ... exf4. However, if black plays the more common Nf6 on his second move instead of Nc6, he can't take the gambit pawn. Here's a site that shows why: Chess Games
Black does have other second move options, as 2. Nc3 isn't forcing at all, but bringing out one of the knights is just the most obvious and common response.
There are plenty of other good double king's pawn openings you could play, though, especially if you're not scared of gambits. Try looking up the Danish Gambit or Goring Gambit, for example. They don't get a lot of use at the grandmaster level, but they aren't truly refuted, either.
--Fromper
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07-13-2007, 08:05 PM
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#9 (permalink)
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Posts: 65
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
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I must say Kings Gambit is a good option. I started playing this a while ago, and some very good results, but rather easy to use. Look at Nigel Short games for good idea of how useful this opening is. Also theres a Mark Hebden database out there and i think there was aload of good games of himself against John Nunn and Joe Gallagher.
Another is the Danish gambit. Used by both Alekhine and Lasker of course Morphy and Blackbourne too but also being brought back into fashion by Jonny Hector (always provides an entertaining game!!). Of course, e4 e5 d4 may transpose to goring gambit and scotch gambit. The danish is my favourite to play. White must be very active, no time for dilly dallying moves on this one. There is a database out there too on Gambits, covers several gambits, or some gambit tournament played by great players of the past incl. capablanca etc.
__________________
Even bullets fear the brave
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07-21-2007, 11:46 PM
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#10 (permalink)
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Posts: 10
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
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Petrovs defence C42-C43
How come noone has talked about Petrovs defence. 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 etc ?
(or have I overlooked a post on it- if so I apologise!).
This is a big opening -and from my limited experience very playable and respected (many GM games) for Black and White.
Check out Anand's games. I think he knows a lot about this opening partly stemming from his very early quick loss to Zapata with this in, at the time, a record no. of few moves for a GM loss. He now seems to be quite handy with this opening and learnt from his mistakes! (Shirov is pretty good with Petrovs especially I think as white).
Anyway I quite like playing it as White and if you are very bold try the Cochrane gambit- (4.Nxf7) it usually makes your opponent think for a minute or two, but be careful! The only GM game I know in this was Topalov vs Kramnik 1999 draw. I guess there must be more but it is a tad risky at any level! (IMHO).
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