The above Winawer goes back to 1937. Rellstab vs. Bergs. Of all places
Kemeri 1937. ( A great tournament) played before WWII.
Of approximately 47 games it appears that the line favors White, by a long shot. Approximately 45 Wins, and 2 Draws.
Capablanca played Black and made an improvement at the AVRO Tournament.
He played Black against Fine. Capablanca notes on the game, analysis
located equality for Black.
In effect the line given in the above post is inferior for Black.
Reuben Fine does not even give the line in his PCO. But does note the game
Fine-Capablanca.
Possibly Black has to try until improvements are found White:
[Event "Semmering/Baden"]
[Site "Semmering"]
[Date "1937.09.08"]
[Round "8"]
[White "Fine,Reuben"]
[Black "Capablanca,Jose Raul"]
[Result "1/2"]
[Eco "D17"]
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 d5 4.Nc3 dxc4 5.a4 Bf5 6.Ne5 Nbd7 7.Nxc4 Qc7 8.g3 e5
9.dxe5 Nxe5 10.Bf4 Nfd7 11.Bg2 f6 12.0-0 Rd8 13.Qc1 Be6 14.Nxe5 Nxe5 15.a5 a6 16.Ne4 Bb4
17.Bd2 Bxd2 18.Nxd2 0-0 19.Qc3 Qd6 20.Ne4 Qd4 21.Nc5 Bc8 22.Qb3+ Qc4 1/2

[Event "AVRO"]
[Site "Holland"]
[Date "1938.11.??"]
[Round "0"]
[White "Fine,Reuben"]
[Black "Capablanca,Jose Raul"]
[Result "1/2"]
[Eco "C17"]
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.e5 c5 5.Bd2 cxd4 6.Nb5 Bxd2+ 7.Qxd2 Nc6 8.Nf3 f6
9.Qf4 Nh6 10.Nd6+ Kf8 11.Bb5 Nf7 12.Nxf7 Kxf7 13.Bxc6 bxc6 14.exf6 gxf6 15.Ne5+ Kg7 16.Qg3+ Kf8
17.Nxc6 Qd7 18.Nxd4 e5 19.Nb3 Qf5 20.Qd3 d4 21.0-0 Rg8 22.f4 Bb7 23.Rf2 Be4 24.Qd2 Kf7
25.Re1 Rg4 26.Nc5 Bxg2 27.Rxg2 Rag8 28.Ree2 exf4 29.Nb7 Qd5 30.Rxg4 Rxg4+ 31.Rg2 Rxg2+ 32.Qxg2 f3
33.Qh3 Qg5+ 34.Qg3 Qc1+ 35.Kf2 Qe3+ 36.Kf1 Qe2+ 37.Kg1 Qd1+ 38.Kf2 Qxc2+ 39.Kxf3 Qc6+ 40.Ke2 Qxb7
41.b3 Qe4+ 42.Kd2 Qe5 43.Qh3 Qg5+ 44.Kd3 1/2

I'm sorry, but you confused me for a while.

1.) My post is the below post from my perspective. I like seeing new posts appear on top.

2.) 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4... eh? I'm unsure what you meant by that game.

3.) 8. f4 is better than 8. Nf3. Had it been possible I would have asked both Fine and Capa what they were thinking. 8. Nf3 f6 ends up equal at best for white. One of the reasons for f4 is that you cannot allow your center to fall as white, not yet anyway.

I have a question about the French (but not really Advance) too

Yesterday I played a game in the French Advance through transposition, and after 1. Nc3 Nf6 2. e4 d5 3. e5 Nd7 4. f4 e6 5. Nf3 c5 6. d4 Nc6 7. Ne2 Qb6 8. c3...



...I played 8... Be7 9. b3 f6?! 10. f5 fxe5 11. fxe6 Nf8 12. dxe5 Bxe6 13. Nf4 O-O-O.

Can anyone tell me if this is the best way for black to handle that position (and if black's position is better/worse after those moves) or if black should play it differently?

Here's a very easy answer: Play 3...d4 with equality. 1 e4 Nf6 2 Nc3 is basically giving up white's advantage.

3... d4 is equality, yes, but I was 2100+ and my opponent was 1700-, so I wasn't waiting for a let's-trade-everything-and-maybe-I-can-win line, but preferred keeping pieces on the board, keeping it complex, and wait for him to make a mistake. So could you please disregard that possibility and, if you know, just answer who's better in that variation?

I don't know a lot of French Theory, but that appears to be an ok plan. You may want to prepare it first by 0-0, or instead opt for the g6, Bg7 then f6 setup. From what I've seen, positions like this (with ...f6, f5) arise a lot in games I have observed at the expert level and seems playable.

I like 3. ... d4, 2. ... d6 (Pirc) and 2. ... e5 (Vienna) better than your choice; but that's moot.

I don't care much for white's approach, 4. f4 just doesn't seem right, 9. b3 the same thing. After 4. f4, I like black's play. 9. ... f6 is perfectly good in my opinion.
I might have played

1. Nc3 Nf6 2. e4 d5
I play this myself though not always since my preparation also includes the Vienna game for black.
3. e5 Nd7
I do not like this line but I understand why you didn't go for 3. ... d4 against a weaker soul. Though in my opinion both 2. ... d6 (Pirc) and 2. ... e5 (Vienna) are preferable to this line.
4. f4? e6
I'm no expert in the Nd7 line. 4. e6!? looked attractive. A setup with d4, Nf3 and carry on in an odd form of the Modern Alekhine would be my choice for white. Had you considered 4. ... Nb6 with some possibilities of bringing the bishop out, pinning a Nf3? Also, 4. ... d4 looks good here, complicated enough, but not as equal as a move earlier.
5. Nf3 c5 6. d4 Nc6 7. Ne2? Qb6
Some more criticism of white (yes I'm fully aware you were black ), I've played plenty of Steinitz French setups to know that Be3 is called for here.
8. c3 Be7 9. b3? f6!
Attrocious, 9. b3... Surely a plan involving Qc2 would be better, alas, he didn't play that. I think your f6 is the best move in the position.
10. f5? fxe5
I don't know. 10. exf6, Qd3 or even a4, white is in no shape for toe-to-toe combat. 10. ... cxd4 is probably just as good as your move.
11. fxe6 Nf8
Ah, interesting position. Worth considering here is 11. ... cxd4!? Where 12. exd7+ Bxd7, two pawns for a backward knight, a tempo developing the bishop allowing for both wings to castle to and an annoying clump of pawns in the middle. 13. Bb2 0-0 14. Qd2 Bg4 is fun for black.

Admitting defeat by 13. Nxe5 Nxe5 14. Qxd4 Qxd4 15. Nxd4 0-0 looks safer, but I think black has sufficient pull there.

I have faith in the position that arrives after 13. cxd4 e4 14. Ne5 Nxe5 15. dxe5. Nice juicy diagonals, 2 center pawns marching down, active pieces and white's in a tangle.

There's nothing wrong with 11. ... Nf8 though.
12. dxe5 Bxe6 13. Nf4 O-O-O
That's what I call "French equality". When black is equal, he's better.

To the original poster,

If you're looking for something to challange a French Defense player with, I would suggest two lines for white:

1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. c4!? dxe4 (mainline)

1. e4 e6 2. Nf3 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 (mainline)

Either of these two are challanging to black for a number or reasons:
1) Not Primary mainlines
2) Full of traps
3) Requires white to engage in unbridled aggression towards black.

Now, let me say, that a well prepared French Defense player will(should) know the equalizing lines to both of these suggestions. The first line suggested can lead to a big black advantage and the second line leads to easy equality to black with correct play. Though, I have to admit, the first line suggested is pretty obscure and leads to some really great attacks if black is not prepared (that line took me forever to find a solution to).

Anyways, good luck.

Also interesting:

1. e4 e6 2. Nf3 d5 3. e5 c5 4. b4?! (Wing Gambit)
1. e4 e6 2. c4 d5 3. cxd5 exd5 4. Qb3?! dxe4 5. Bc4

Both also give white a chance to deviate from the more usual lines which black probably knows better.

I've played the gambit continuation 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. c4?. It doesn't work, though anything goes in blitz.

For Phobetor's suggestions I have more respect, in my experience they have a greater tendency to work. I would add though that you should at least familiarize yourself with one of the more established variations (Classical or Steinitz for instance).