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06-29-2009, 06:16 AM
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#31 (permalink)
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Posts: 179
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
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try 3. Bb5
Originally Posted by music
Thanks everyone. I was a bit wary of statistics since it usually depends on who's playing white and who's playing black. So my question now is if I don't use statistics, what do I use? I don't know what my style is and I don't know which resulting position I like. It looks the same to me (I don't prefer knights to bishops or vice versa). Basically what I want is something solid. So how do I figure out which opening is the most solid? Sorry if this post is kinda confusing. Thanks.
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against 1 e4 c5 2Nf3 d6/Nc6 I've played Bb5, which has worked well for me, though sometimes when prepared I venture with 3d4 too. why the statistics? these people are right; the statistics may not as well apply to you if you're well-versed with the system you play. basically, if you play this against 2...Nc6 you get a Ruy Lopez-like position with the difference that the pawn is on c5 than e5;so, if you play the Spanish against 1...e5, perhaps you'll be hitting two birds with one stone... but you may ask, what if Black plays 2...e6 or 2...g6? then it's new territory...and Bb5 would then be ridiculous; however, if you really like to play a system against all black's choices in the sicilian, try fischer's KIA (king's indian attack), right? you could also play this against the french! be as versatile as you can be.
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07-01-2009, 02:58 AM
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#32 (permalink)
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Posts: 1,343
Thanked 46 Times in 45 Posts
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Oooo, the thought of a Sicilian Exchange a la Ruy Lopez sounds exciting, especially since I haven't finished my SMG primer yet.
EDIT: Doesn't quite work out, although I'm unsure if 5. c4 would be as good as it seems....
__________________
Brick walls hurt, but are effective for banging against repeatedly. For future reference, cardboard walls are fun too 
Being a professional player is something akin to being a prostitute. First I played because other people did it. Then I played because I liked to play. And finally I played just for the money. - Benko
Procrastination: due date = do date
Last edited by granturismo4ad; 07-01-2009 at 03:03 AM..
Reason: I LIE!
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07-01-2009, 06:39 AM
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#33 (permalink)
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Posts: 2,156
Thanked 120 Times in 116 Posts
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What I found funny is that in the Sicilian (1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5) Bxc6 is often a good move, rather than a bit of an impotent one as in the Ruy Lopez.
__________________
White:
- Ruy Lopez
- Sicilian Defense: Chekhover variation, Rossolimo variation, 2. ... e6 3. d4
- French Defense: Bogo-Winawer variation, Alekhine-Chatard attack
- Pirc Defense: Byrne variation
Black:
- Ruy Lopez: Modern Steinitz variation
- Two Knights Defense: Fritz variation, Ulvestadt variation
- King's Gambit: Falkbeer Countergambit: Nimzowitsch variation
- Tarrasch Defense
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07-01-2009, 07:01 AM
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#34 (permalink)
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Posts: 567
Thanked 27 Times in 27 Posts
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Originally Posted by Perseus
What I found funny is that in the Sicilian (1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5) Bxc6 is often a good move, rather than a bit of an impotent one as in the Ruy Lopez.
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I assume because it is more difficult to open the position from Black's point of view?
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07-02-2009, 02:53 PM
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#35 (permalink)
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Posts: 1,080
Thanked 70 Times in 68 Posts
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I first became aware of the moves from a few Soviet chess magazines in the 60's. I believe Chess Life & Review printed one of the games below as well.
The moves appear to have a history from the Amsterdam Tournament of 1851.
There are probably a few thousand games in the Chesslive.de database.
[Event "Amsterdam"]
[Site "Amsterdam"]
[Date "1851.??.??"]
[Round "0"]
[White "Heijmans,FG"]
[Black "Van't Kruijs,M"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Eco "B30"]
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Bxc6 bxc6 5.b3 d5 6.e5 e6 7.Bb2 Ne7 8.0-0 Ng6
9.c3 Qc7 10.d4 cxd4 11.cxd4 c5 12.Qc2 Qb6 13.Rc1 cxd4 14.Bxd4 Qb7 15.Bc5 Bxc5 16.Qxc5 Bd7
17.Nbd2 Rc8 18.Qd6 f6 19.h4 Kf7 20.exf6 gxf6 21.h5 Ne7 22.Qf4 Qb8 23.Qxb8 Rxb8 24.Rc7 Rhd8
25.g4 h6 26.Re1 Nc6 27.Rc1 Rb6 28.a4 Ke7 29.Kg2 Kd6 30.R7xc6+ Rxc6 31.Re1 e5 32.Kh3 Rg8
33.Nh2 Rc3+ 34.Kh4 e4 35.f4 f5 36.g5 hxg5+ 37.fxg5 f4 0-1
[Event "London knockout"]
[Site "London"]
[Date "1851.05.27"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Bird,Henry Edward"]
[Black "Horwitz,Bernhard"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Eco "B30"]
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Qc7 4.0-0 e6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Bxc6 bxc6 7.e5 Ne7 8.d3 Ng6
9.Re1 Be7 10.b3 f6 11.Ne4 fxe5 12.Bg5 d6 13.Bxe7 Qxe7 14.Neg5 h6 15.Ne4 0-0 16.Re3 Nf4
17.g3 Nd5 18.Re1 Bd7 19.c4 Nf6 20.Re3 Be8 21.Nxf6+ Qxf6 22.Qd2 e4 23.Rae1 exf3 24.Re4 e5
25.Kh1 Bd7 26.g4 Qg5 27.Qa5 Bxg4 28.Rg1 h5 29.Qc7 Qd2 30.Qxd6 Qxf2 31.Rxe5 Qxg1+ 32.Kxg1 f2+
0-1
[Event "London"]
[Site "London"]
[Date "1883.??.??"]
[Round "7"]
[White "Winawer,Szymon"]
[Black "Chigorin,Mikhail"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Eco "B30"]
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 e6 4.Bxc6 bxc6 5.0-0 Ne7 6.d3 Ng6 7.Qe2 Be7 8.Ne1 0-0
9.f4 f5 10.c4 d6 11.e5 dxe5 12.fxe5 Qd4+ 13.Be3 Qxe5 14.Nf3 Qd6 15.Nc3 Bf6 16.Na4 Bd4
17.Kh1 Rb8 18.Rad1 e5 19.b3 Bd7 20.Bc1 f4 21.Ne1 Rf6 22.Nc2 Nh4 23.Ba3 f3 24.gxf3 Bh3
25.Rg1 Bxg1 26.Rxg1 Rg6 27.Bxc5 Rxg1+ 28.Kxg1 Qg6+ 29.Kf2 Qg2+ 30.Ke3 Qg5+ 31.Kf2 Ng2 32.Qe4 Nf4
33.Ne1 Rd8 34.Nc3 Re8 35.Ne2 Bf5 36.Qxc6 Rc8 37.Qxc8+ Bxc8 38.Nxf4 Qxf4 39.Ke2 Qxh2+ 40.Bf2 h5
41.b4 h4 42.Nc2 h3 43.Ne3 Qf4 44.Nd5 Qg5 0-1
[Event "Kecskemet-S1"]
[Site "Kecskemet"]
[Date "1927.??.??"]
[Round "7"]
[White "Nimzowitsch,Aaron"]
[Black "Gilg,Karl"]
[Result "1-0"]
[Eco "B30"]
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Qc7 4.c3 a6 5.Ba4 Nf6 6.Qe2 e5 7.0-0 Be7 8.d4 cxd4
9.cxd4 Nxd4 10.Nxd4 exd4 11.e5 d3 12.Qe3 Nd5 13.Qg3 g6 14.Bb3 Nb4 15.Bxf7+ Kd8 16.Bh6 Nc2
17.Nc3 Nd4 18.Qxd3 Qxe5 19.Rfe1 Qf6 20.Rxe7 1-0
[Event "URS-chT"]
[Site "Riga"]
[Date "1954.09.03"]
[Round "11"]
[White "Zvorykina,Kira"]
[Black "Sirotkina,K"]
[Result "1-0"]
[Eco "B30"]
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Bxc6 bxc6 5.d3 g6 6.Nbd2 d5 7.0-0 Bg7 8.Nb3 Qb6
9.Be3 Bxb2 10.Rb1 Bg7 11.Nxc5 Qc7 12.Nd4 Nf6 13.h3 0-0 14.f4 Nd7 15.Ndb3 Rd8 16.e5 Nxc5
17.Nxc5 Rb8 18.Rxb8 Qxb8 19.Qb1 Qc7 20.Qb3 e6 21.Rb1 d4 22.Bd2 Bf8 23.Ne4 Kg7 24.Qb8 Rd7
25.Nf6 Re7 26.Ne8+ 1-0
[Event "URS-chT fin"]
[Site "Voroshilovgrad"]
[Date "1955.??.??"]
[Round "0"]
[White "Polugaevsky,Lev"]
[Black "Tal,Mihail"]
[Result "1/2"]
[Eco "B51"]
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 d6 4.c3 Nf6 5.Qe2 e6 6.d4 cxd4 7.cxd4 d5 8.e5 Nd7
9.0-0 Be7 10.Nc3 Nb6 11.Bd3 a6 12.Be3 Nb4 13.Bb1 Bd7 14.Nd2 g6 15.a3 Nc6 16.b4 Rc8
17.Rc1 Na7 18.Bd3 Na4 19.Nxa4 Bxa4 20.Bh6 Rxc1+ 21.Rxc1 Bg5 22.Bxg5 Qxg5 23.Rc5 0-0 24.Nf3 Qe7
25.Qd2 Rc8 26.h4 Rxc5 27.dxc5 Bb5 28.Bxb5 Nxb5 29.a4 Na3 30.Qh6 Qf8 31.Qxf8+ Kxf8 32.Nd4 Nc4
33.c6 bxc6 34.Nxc6 Ke8 35.f4 a5 1/2
[Event "URS-ch sf"]
[Site "Kharkov"]
[Date "1956.??.??"]
[Round "0"]
[White "Nezhmetdinov,Rashid"]
[Black "Boleslavsky,Isaak"]
[Result "1/2"]
[Eco "B31"]
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 g6 4.c3 d5 5.Qa4 dxe4 6.Ne5 Bd7 7.Nxd7 Qxd7 8.Qxe4 Nf6
9.Qf3 Rc8 10.0-0 Bg7 11.Na3 0-0 12.Re1 Rfd8 13.h3 Ne8 14.Qe3 a6 15.Bf1 Qf5 16.Qe4 Qxe4
17.Rxe4 Bh6 18.Nc4 Nd6 19.Nxd6 1/2
[Event "URS-ch28"]
[Site "Moscow"]
[Date "1961.??.??"]
[Round "0"]
[White "Gufeld,Eduard"]
[Black "Kortschnoj,Viktor"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Eco "B30"]
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Qb6 4.Qe2 e6 5.0-0 Nf6 6.e5 Nd5 7.Nc3 Be7 8.Nxd5 exd5
9.d4 cxd4 10.Bg5 Bxg5 11.Nxg5 h6 12.Nf3 0-0 13.Rad1 Re8 14.c3 d6 15.cxd4 Bg4 16.Bxc6 bxc6
17.h3 Bxf3 18.gxf3 dxe5 19.dxe5 Qb4 20.Qe3 Re6 21.f4 f6 22.Kh1 Rf8 23.b3 fxe5 24.fxe5 Rf4
25.f3 Qf8 26.Rde1 Qf7 27.Kh2 d4 28.Qe2 Rh4 29.Qg2 Rg6 0-1
[Event "Vrnjacka Banja ct (Women)"]
[Site "Vrnjacka Banja"]
[Date "1961.??.??"]
[Round "7"]
[White "Gaprindashvili,Nona"]
[Black "Borisenko Belova,Valentina"]
[Result "1-0"]
[Eco "B51"]
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 d6 4.0-0 Bg4 5.Re1 Qb6 6.Be2 Nf6 7.d3 g6 8.Nbd2 Qc7
9.Nc4 Bxf3 10.Bxf3 Bg7 11.c3 Nd7 12.Be2 0-0 13.f4 e6 14.Ne3 f5 15.g4 fxe4 16.dxe4 Nb6
17.f5 exf5 18.gxf5 Qe7 19.Nd5 Qxe4 20.Nxb6 axb6 21.Bd3 Qd5 22.Qe2 Ne5 23.Be4 Qf7 24.Qg2 Kh8
25.fxg6 Nxg6 26.Bg5 Ne5 27.Rf1 Qh5 28.Be7 Rxf1+ 29.Rxf1 Qh6 30.Kh1 Rxa2 31.Bg5 Rxb2 32.Qxb2 Qxg5
33.Qxb6 Qe7 34.Bxb7 Ng6 35.Bd5 Bxc3 36.Qb8+ Kg7 37.Rf7+ Qxf7 38.Bxf7 Kxf7 39.Qb3+ Ke7 40.Qxc3
1-0
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07-03-2009, 06:50 AM
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#36 (permalink)
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Posts: 179
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
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Bb5 simply is my favourite..in both sicilian and ruy lopez where black plays Nc6...notwithstanding the verdict that bishops are supposed to be better than knights...what Tarrasch called "the minor exchange"..thanks for the games, Malbase.=)
eh..how do you put a signature in your posts?
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07-03-2009, 10:23 AM
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#37 (permalink)
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Posts: 2,156
Thanked 120 Times in 116 Posts
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Originally Posted by mifs adaro
Bb5 simply is my favourite..in both sicilian and ruy lopez where black plays Nc6...notwithstanding the verdict that bishops are supposed to be better than knights...what Tarrasch called "the minor exchange"..thanks for the games, Malbase.=)
eh..how do you put a signature in your posts?
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Below the big blue chessforums banner click 'User CP' (CP meaning Control Panel), in the left of your screen click 'edit signature', input your signature in the box where it says 'your signature', scroll down and click save signature and you're done.
__________________
White:
- Ruy Lopez
- Sicilian Defense: Chekhover variation, Rossolimo variation, 2. ... e6 3. d4
- French Defense: Bogo-Winawer variation, Alekhine-Chatard attack
- Pirc Defense: Byrne variation
Black:
- Ruy Lopez: Modern Steinitz variation
- Two Knights Defense: Fritz variation, Ulvestadt variation
- King's Gambit: Falkbeer Countergambit: Nimzowitsch variation
- Tarrasch Defense
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07-04-2009, 04:45 AM
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#38 (permalink)
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Posts: 1,343
Thanked 46 Times in 45 Posts
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Originally Posted by Octal
I assume because it is more difficult to open the position from Black's point of view?
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Probably between the fact that Black has not played e5 in the "Sicilian Exchange", the pawn on c5 is less safe than on c7, and that White can somewhat close the center with 5. c4.
__________________
Brick walls hurt, but are effective for banging against repeatedly. For future reference, cardboard walls are fun too 
Being a professional player is something akin to being a prostitute. First I played because other people did it. Then I played because I liked to play. And finally I played just for the money. - Benko
Procrastination: due date = do date
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