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09-19-2008, 11:17 AM
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#11 (permalink)
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Posts: 115
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
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I don't have enough time to analyze the position, maybe tomorrow I'll continue it. After 9...Qa5. 10.Bxe7 Nxe7. 11.Qd6! Qxc3. 12. Ne5 or 12. Rc1 is good for white. Black's king is cemented at the center.White has a strong play on C and D open files. And with white's knight landing on e5, his initiative will strengthen.
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09-19-2008, 03:17 PM
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#12 (permalink)
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Posts: 1,410
Thanked 77 Times in 74 Posts
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Hm if 9. Ba3 Qa5 10. Qd6 0-0 11. Rab1 Qxc3 12. Rfc1 Qf6 13. e5 Qh6 14. Bd3 can't make that much of it.
Or 9. Ba3 Qa5 10. Bd6 Qxc3 11. Rc1 Qf6 12. Qd2
I don't know, white's still a bit better, but I don't know how long that'll hold.
I still like Qd6 better, it seems more direct and to the point. I'm not sure it matters in the long run, black can probably equalize without too much trouble there too, but white seems a little more coordinated in the lines I've seen.
__________________
White:
- Ruy Lopez
- Sicilian Defense: Chekhover variation, Rossolimo variation, Delayed Alapin variation
- French Defense: Bogo-Winawer variation, Classical variation 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5 Be7 5. e5 Nfd7 6. Bxe7
- Pirc Defense: Byrne variation
Black:
- Ruy Lopez: Modern Steinitz variation
- Two Knights Defense: Fritz variation, Ulvestadt variation
- King's Gambit: Falkbeer Countergambit: Nimzowitsch variation
- Indian Defense: Nimzo-Indian Defense, Queen's Indian Defense
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09-19-2008, 03:24 PM
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#13 (permalink)
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Posts: 589
Thanked 57 Times in 56 Posts
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Taking a closer look at the battery after:
9.Ba3 Qa5
I’m sure you’re aware that Panno met 9.Ba3 with 9...d5 and that seems to be best in my opinion.
10.Qd6.
I don’t think Black can take the P.
10...Qxc3 11.Bb5
Threatening to remove one of the defenders of e7. Black has to find a way to defend e7 and I don't think there's a satisfactory way to do it.
11…Qa5
The idea of this move is to hurry back to d8. Black has lost time grabbing the c3P. He can’t play 11...0–0 because 12.Bxc6 wins a piece and other tries look to fail:
If 11...a6 12.Rac1 Qf6 (To defend e7) 13.e5 Qg6 14.Bxc6 Nxc6 15.Rxc6.
If 11...Qf6 12.e5 Qg6 13.Nd4 Threatening to remove both defenders of e7 13...Nf5 14.Nxf5 exf5 15.e6 keeping the threat alive. 15...fxe6 16.Bxc6
12.Nd4
Threatening to remove both N's from the defense of e7.
12...Qd8
He still can't play 12...0–0 because of 13.Nxc6. Black is behind in development, but he does have a material advantage and unless you can find a way to dig out his K at some point you’ll be left a P down.
I didn’t check any of this with an engine so you might want to do that to see what its evaluation is (or if I've missed anything!) but I suspect different engines will evaluate it differently and engine analysis is unlikely to be conclusive.
__________________
Always deploy so that the right oblique can be readily established in case the objective plane remains open or becomes permanently located on the centre or on the King's wing, or that the crochet aligned may readily be established if the objective plane becomes permanently located otherwise than at the extremity of the strategic front.- Franklin K. Young
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09-19-2008, 06:32 PM
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#14 (permalink)
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Posts: 1,410
Thanked 77 Times in 74 Posts
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Originally Posted by JacksonWShowalter
Taking a closer look at the battery after:
I’m sure you’re aware that Panno met 9.Ba3 with 9...d5 and that seems to be best in my opinion.
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That was what I would play as well, but Fromper's line of thought involved Qa5 first. 
__________________
White:
- Ruy Lopez
- Sicilian Defense: Chekhover variation, Rossolimo variation, Delayed Alapin variation
- French Defense: Bogo-Winawer variation, Classical variation 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5 Be7 5. e5 Nfd7 6. Bxe7
- Pirc Defense: Byrne variation
Black:
- Ruy Lopez: Modern Steinitz variation
- Two Knights Defense: Fritz variation, Ulvestadt variation
- King's Gambit: Falkbeer Countergambit: Nimzowitsch variation
- Indian Defense: Nimzo-Indian Defense, Queen's Indian Defense
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09-19-2008, 07:10 PM
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#15 (permalink)
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Posts: 1,327
Thanked 78 Times in 76 Posts
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Originally Posted by Perseus
That was what I would play as well, but Fromper's line of thought involved Qa5 first. 
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I saw both possibilities, but I had a harder time coming up with a response after Qa5, which is why I asked about it.
--Fromper
__________________
Current study plan:
1. Play at least 2 slow USCF rated games per week.
2. Play at least 3 other games per week.
3. Study my own games - All of them!!!
4. Do at least 50 tactics puzzles per week.
5. Read at least one chapter of a Chess book every week.
6. Play through at least 3 master games per week.
"Don't be afraid of ghosts! Always play the moves you want to play unless you see a genuine tactical drawback." --Grandmaster Neil McDonald
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09-19-2008, 07:50 PM
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#16 (permalink)
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Posts: 1,410
Thanked 77 Times in 74 Posts
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Originally Posted by Fromper
I saw both possibilities, but I had a harder time coming up with a response after Qa5, which is why I asked about it.
--Fromper
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Which is why I went into 9. ... Qa5 
__________________
White:
- Ruy Lopez
- Sicilian Defense: Chekhover variation, Rossolimo variation, Delayed Alapin variation
- French Defense: Bogo-Winawer variation, Classical variation 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5 Be7 5. e5 Nfd7 6. Bxe7
- Pirc Defense: Byrne variation
Black:
- Ruy Lopez: Modern Steinitz variation
- Two Knights Defense: Fritz variation, Ulvestadt variation
- King's Gambit: Falkbeer Countergambit: Nimzowitsch variation
- Indian Defense: Nimzo-Indian Defense, Queen's Indian Defense
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09-20-2008, 06:57 PM
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#17 (permalink)
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Posts: 113
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
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Originally Posted by Fromper
So in my tourney this last weekend, I got to play the Smith-Morra Gambit twice, which I usually consider a good thing. I like playing that gambit, so I enjoy facing the Sicilian these days. But both of my opponents played similar non-book moves early that I wasn't entirely sure how to deal with. Given that they're natural looking moves that anyone who hasn't studied the gambit might try against me, I think it'll pay to be prepared for the next time I face them.
--Fromper
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The Morra Smith used to be a favourite of mine, but only for blitz chess. In classical one tends to struggle with this opening as there just isn't enough compensation for the pawn.
Best Regards,
AO
__________________
OzChess - Australia's Chess Forum - Upcoming Chess Tournaments, Game Analysis, Chess Politics, & Australian Chess News
http://www.ozchess.com
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09-21-2008, 06:32 AM
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#18 (permalink)
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Posts: 1,327
Thanked 78 Times in 76 Posts
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Originally Posted by Arrogant-One
The Morra Smith used to be a favourite of mine, but only for blitz chess. In classical one tends to struggle with this opening as there just isn't enough compensation for the pawn.
Best Regards,
AO
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I've heard that several times from high level intermediate players (1700-1900 USCF ratings), but I've never heard a master say that. I think the masters understand that you don't necessarily need an obvious attack to have compensation for a pawn. This isn't some wild attacking gambit - it has a sound, classical basis.
There are quite a few masters who use this gambit in slow games. I even saw one master win a game with it on his way to an IM norm last weekend at the Miami Open.
I really think I could learn a lot about chess in general by learning as much as possible about what it means to have compensation for the pawn in this gambit in situations where there's no obvious attack.
--Fromper
__________________
Current study plan:
1. Play at least 2 slow USCF rated games per week.
2. Play at least 3 other games per week.
3. Study my own games - All of them!!!
4. Do at least 50 tactics puzzles per week.
5. Read at least one chapter of a Chess book every week.
6. Play through at least 3 master games per week.
"Don't be afraid of ghosts! Always play the moves you want to play unless you see a genuine tactical drawback." --Grandmaster Neil McDonald
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09-22-2008, 07:47 PM
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#19 (permalink)
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Posts: 586
Thanked 55 Times in 53 Posts
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I think you should experiment with not worrying about the c3 pawn in lines with Bb4xc3. It's not always "correct" but you can't freak out about it - you have to play actively. And if he wants to waste time winning a second pawn and falling further behind in development, let him.
You'll lose some games this way, no doubt, but you've got to learn when you don't have to worry about things like that. One habit I see sneaking into your comments is that you - down a pawn - start thinking defensively if you might lose another pawn.
Dude, you're down a pawn already. The endgame is lost. (Maybe not ... but practically, yes.) Your best chances to draw or win are to play actively and force concessions. And if he wants to chase pawns ... great! Just increase your attack and increase your pressure, and let him count all his precious pawns after you've mated him.
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09-22-2008, 09:58 PM
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#20 (permalink)
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Posts: 224
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
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Originally Posted by Ronaldinho
I think you should experiment with not worrying about the c3 pawn in lines with Bb4xc3. It's not always "correct" but you can't freak out about it - you have to play actively. And if he wants to waste time winning a second pawn and falling further behind in development, let him.
You'll lose some games this way, no doubt, but you've got to learn when you don't have to worry about things like that. One habit I see sneaking into your comments is that you - down a pawn - start thinking defensively if you might lose another pawn.
Dude, you're down a pawn already. The endgame is lost. (Maybe not ... but practically, yes.) Your best chances to draw or win are to play actively and force concessions. And if he wants to chase pawns ... great! Just increase your attack and increase your pressure, and let him count all his precious pawns after you've mated him.
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