Need Help: Repertoire as Black - Page 2 - Chess Forums

Zuker · 09-15-2008, 05:33 AM

Originally Posted by SkyWalker

Why do you say that? I thought Colle was a decent opening playable even at 2000 level.

I had assumed you were referring to the "normal" Colle, the Colle-Koltanowski. That opening is generally not considered ambitious enough at stronger levels [though Doug Root plays.]

In addition, it's main-line appears to have a cloud over it.

The b3-Colle, the Colle-Zukertort, is esteemed more highly (not to the level of conventional openings, but certainly more highly than most other d4-deviations.)
I'm not saying this just because I am trying to popularize the Colle-Zukertort-- John Cox, in his rather useful Dealing with d4 Deviations, a book on the Trompowsky, the Pseudo-Trompowsky, the Torre Attack, the Hebden Torre, The London System, The c3-Colle, the b3-Colle, the Veresov, the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit, and various Anti-Benoni lines, had this to say about the Colle-Zukertort:

"Probably of all the lines in this book, these (the C-Z lines) are the ones you are most likely to see 2600 players essaying against each other, and hence I dare say they are the most genuine tries for an opening advantage."

The same author says the "normal" Colle is only really dangerous if you are playing someone of lower rating, against whom a draw would be bad. He suggests the problem for Black is not equalizing so much as keeping the game interesting enough to actually win rather than merely draw.

Spartan356 · 09-16-2008, 03:50 AM

I agree that the Sicilian is so massive in theory that you will lose far too often to invest the time in it to learn all the lines. Taking e5 is a very good way to change up the game on the opponent. For starters you can learn the Ruy Lopez. It has many sharp lines such as the Exchange variation that actually favor black instead of just keeping black in the game. Another line in the open black repetoire is the Italian game. Quiet development tempered with the right amount of patience can break most opponents. I also think that the Petrov defence is too passive. You won't get sharp tactical play in the Petrov, and there are not many distinctive lines in the Petrov. With a good Ruy Lopez defence under your belt you can choose a more passive option like the Berlin Defence or go all out with a rarer and much more risky play like the Schileiman Defence(really it's more of a gambit than a defence). I prefer solid lines such as the Classical, the Moller Defence, and the Cozio defense is also good too. All i'm saying is that there is a lot of tactical play in the open lines like the Italian, Spainish(Ruy Lopez),and others. Don't relegate youself to something boring and less effective like the Petrov. Open lines are famous for being sharp tactical lines with many chances for dangerous attacks that can end games. My suggestions for lines to study would be 1. Ruy Lopez(which you WILL encounter often if you play e5)play this for asharp aggressive game,
2. Italian Game(guico piano(the quiet gam)) Play this for a more passive game.

Ronaldinho · 09-16-2008, 06:06 AM

The exchange ruy is "sharp?"

Perseus · 09-16-2008, 06:42 AM

Originally Posted by Ronaldinho

The exchange ruy is "sharp?"

About as sharp as a club (player).

EcoChess · 09-18-2008, 01:08 AM

Originally Posted by SkyWalker

Hi,

I am a guy in 30s - picking up chess late in life. I have had some tactical training with "Convekta - Tactics for Beginners" and read "Logical Chess Move by Move" for an understanding of the game. My improvement plans: my tactics (more training with Convekta) and then probably go to read the Vukovic book on attacking.

I do not play rated games - so i have no a rating, If i am adventurous i can say i might be around 1400-1500. I have a rating of around 2100 in Chessmaster 10 after playing aound 30 games (i play 10 min games only) - i heard from someone that CM ratings are usually off by ~600 points - so i am guessing i should be around 1400-1500 vs human opponents.

Anyway coming back to point. I have have no clue what to play as black. I do not have much time to spend on openings - as i mainly want to focus on my tactical training. As white i found Colle (from Logical Chess) and i am pretty happy with it.

Here are my requirements from openings as black:

needs:
1. should transform me into a playable middle game, tactics rich

2. reasonably solid systems, with lots of transposition options (as much common themes between e4,d4,Nf3 & C4)
3. will spend only 3-4 hours learning the basic themes of the opening so i have some plan in the middle game. i am mainly looking up building it by playing rather than booking it up.

good to have:
1. chance of counter play, and if possible a king side attack
2. easy and intuitive (with some flexibility in move order like Colle)

here's two options i considered (these are at best educated guesses, i have no real clue on these openings):

option 1:
e4: sicilian, d4 and others : KID
pluses: gives dynamic play, can get into tactics
minuses: too much theory around them, and everyone is booking up on these

option 2:
1...d6 universal
pluses: hmmm... one move for everything?
minuses: no clue. i know there's a chessbase DVD on it, and should i go for it, i will buy that.

Now, i know this is too much to expect, but i am attaching some of my games so you know my style and limitations

two won games (OTB):

as white:
1. d4 c5 2. c3 Nf6 3. Nf3 Nc6 4. e3 d5 5. Bd3 e6 6. Nbd2 Be7 7. O-O O-O 8.
Re1 c4 9. Bc2 Bd6 10. e4 dxe4 11. Nxe4 Nxe4 12. Bxe4 Qc7 13. Bxh7+ Kxh7 14.
Ng5+ Kg6 15. Qc2+ Kf6 16. Nh7+ Ke7 17. Nxf8 Kxf8 18. Qh7 f6 19. Qh8+ Kf7
20. d5 Ne5 21. dxe6+ Kxe6 22. f4 Qf7 23. fxe5 Bxe5 24. Bf4 Qc7 25. Bxe5
fxe5 26. Qe8+ Kd5 27. Rad1+ Kc5 28. Rxe5+ Kb6 29. Qb5# 1-0

as black:
1.e3 e5 2.c3 d5 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.Bb5 Bd6 5.0-0 Bg4 6.h3 Bd7 7.d4 e4 8.Nfd2 Qg5 9.c4 Bxh3 10.g3 Bxg3 11.cxd5 Bh2+ 12.Kxh2 Qg2#0-1

one lost game (against CM 10)
Walker - Jade (2300) [A46]
Chessmaster 10th Edition Rated Game

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.e3 Be7 4.Bd3 0-0 5.0-0 b6 6.Nbd2 d6 7.e4 Bb7 8.e5 Ne8 9.Ne4 d5 10.Neg5 g6 11.Nh3 Nc6 12.Bh6 Ng7 13.Nhg5 Na5 14.h4 Re8 15.h5 Nxh5 16.g3 a6 17.Kg2 Qd7 18.Rh1 Nc4 19.Rxh5 Nxb2 20.Qe2 c5 21.Rh2 c4 22.Nxh7 Kxh7 23.Bf8+ Kg8 24.Rah1 Bh4 25.Rxh4 Kxf8 26.Bxg6 Ke7 27.Bxf7 Rf8 28.Rh7 Rxf7 29.Rxf7+ Kxf7 30.Rh7+ Ke8 31.Rxd7 Kxd7 32.c3 Na4 33.Ng5 Re8 34.Qf3 Bc6 35.Nh7 Kc8 36.Qf7 Nxc3 37.Nf6 Rd8 38.Qa7 Na4 39.Qxa6+ Kb8 40.g4 Rc8 41.g5 Rc7 42.Kf1 c3 43.Ke2 c2 44.Kd2 c1Q+ 0-1

This has been a long post - if you have read so far, thanks.

Looking forward to tips and guidance. If you have seen the games and have any general comments to improve my games, i would be grateful too.

Walker

Openings: Very simple openings, in example, 1.e4-e5; 2.Nf3 (high %) 2...Nf6! it's simple for black.
1.d4-Nf6; With idea 2..e6-b6-Bb7-Be7 or Bb4-d6-0-0-Nbd7.
If 1.d4-Nf6; 2.Nc3-d5, no problem for black.
If 1.c4 or 1.Nf3, like 1.d4, same idea.
1.f4 is an interesting move. You can play 1...e5 or 1...d5.
1.b3 or 1.b4 no problem for black.

Opening's Statistics, opening chess games, tactics and endings, include a chess viewer:
Eco Chess: Encyclopedia of Chess Openings

Perseus · 09-18-2008, 01:44 AM

Originally Posted by EcoChess

Openings: Very simple openings, in example, 1.e4-e5; 2.Nf3 (high %) 2...Nf6! it's simple for black.
1.d4-Nf6; With idea 2..e6-b6-Bb7-Be7 or Bb4-d6-0-0-Nbd7.
If 1.d4-Nf6; 2.Nc3-d5, no problem for black.
If 1.c4 or 1.Nf3, like 1.d4, same idea.
1.f4 is an interesting move. You can play 1...e5 or 1...d5.
1.b3 or 1.b4 no problem for black.

Opening's Statistics, opening chess games, tactics and endings, include a chess viewer:
Eco Chess: Encyclopedia of Chess Openings

This, in combination with other now-deleted posts, gets close to spam. Be warned.

steve4chess · 09-18-2008, 06:52 PM

Hi Walker ... I love your question. First, if I recall Ken Smith's advice correctly, he said that it doesn't really matter what opening you pick; pick one and know it as well as anyone in the world. Of course, that would require a good deal of study.

The book "How to Think Ahead in Chess" by Horowitz and Reinfeld, which is basically a simple repertoire book (I hope I'm remembering correctly ... I don't have the book at hand just now) recommends the Stonewall attack for White (very similar to your Colle) and the Dragon Sicilian for black against 1.e4 ... and I don't remember the recommendation for black against 1.d4. But the openings they recommend seem to fit your requirement and have a simple, coherent approach to planning your game from the opening. Take a look at that book if you haven't already.

Good chess!