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08-19-2008, 12:41 AM
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#1 (permalink)
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Posts: 1,214
Thanked 73 Times in 71 Posts
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French Defense question
So I still haven't decided what line I want to play as white against the French Defense. I know that I really like the king side attack that white gets in stereotypical French middle game positions, with the pawns locked up in the center and the king's bishop aimed at h7, but I just don't know what line to use to most reliably get to those types of middle games.
For instance, I know I don't want to play the Exchange variation. The Advance variation gives black counterplay by attacking d4 immediately, which isn't how I want the game to go. I like playing white against the classical variation after 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. e5 Nd7, but that allows the Winawer if black chooses 3. ... Bb4 instead. It's not that I'm scared of the Winawer, but it's not what I'm hoping for when I see the French. I haven't really looked at the Tarrasch (3. Nd2), so I don't know if that would lead to the types of positions I like.
On a whim, I tried the odd, yet seemingly playable, 3. Bd3 (after the normal 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5) this past weekend, and I got exactly the middle game position I wanted out of it. We continued 3. ... Nf6 4. e5 Nd7 5. f4 c5 6. c3 Nc6 7. Nf3 Qb6 8. Bc2, leading to this position (from memory, so this might not be exactly right):
The point being that black eventually castled king side, and I ended up playing a typical Greek Gift sacrifice (Bxh7+). The attack didn't work because I overlooked a brilliant defensive move where black gave the material back, so we ended up with a draw, but it was exactly the type of exciting attack that I like playing as white in the French. If he hadn't castled, I still would have proceeded with the king side attack, probably by castling and pushing my f pawn.
So now the big question: After 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5, what's wrong with 3. Bd3? This move seems perfectly reasonable to me, yet it isn't even mentioned as a minor sideline in MCO. We even went to the book vendor at the tournament and searched around for French Defense books, trying to find one that mentioned this move, and I couldn't find it mentioned anywhere. Apparently, masters and grandmasters don't play it. Why not?
Personally, I like that it got my opponent out of his preparation, yet led to exactly the type of French position that we're both used to seeing, just without black getting any immediate pressure.
The only risk I can see is if black goes for the Rubenstein variation with 3. ... dxe4 4. Bxe4 Nf6 5. Bg5 Be7, white's going to have to either move that king's bishop a third time or else play 6. Bxf6 Bxf6, giving up the bishop pair.
--Fromper
__________________
White:
Ruy Lopez Exchange
Smith-Morra Gambit
French - 3. Bd3 or Tarrasch variation
Pirc/Modern - 150 Attack
Caro Kann Exchange
Scandinavean - main line
Black:
Tarrasch Defense against anything but 1. e4
King's Gambit Declined
Two Knights Defense
Scotch - 4. ... Bc5
Ruy Lopez - Closed, Keres Variation
Ruy Lopez - Exchange, 5. ... Bg4
Decline Danish/Goring/Scotch-type Gambits with early d5
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08-19-2008, 05:19 PM
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#2 (permalink)
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Posts: 560
Thanked 54 Times in 52 Posts
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Originally Posted by Fromper
The only risk I can see is if black goes for the Rubenstein variation with 3. ... dxe4 4. Bxe4 Nf6 5. Bg5 Be7, white's going to have to either move that king's bishop a third time or else play 6. Bxf6 Bxf6, giving up the bishop pair.
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Well, that was my first reaction to that move order. White loses a tempo or gives up the bishop pair in an open position. Not the end of the world, but not the sort of thing that plays for the advantage at a high level, either.
I believe this system is called the Tarakower. And generally play goes
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Bd3 de 4.Bxe4 Nf6 5.Bd3 c5 6.dxc5 Bxc7 7.Nf3 Nc6 8.0-0 when 8. ... 0-0 Bg5 give white a nice initiative, but 8. ... Qc7! 9.Nc3 Bd7 10.Bg5 0-0-0 11.Qe2 e5 (Tartakower-Torre, Moscow, 1925) when things are extremely sharp.
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08-19-2008, 07:11 PM
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#3 (permalink)
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Posts: 1,214
Thanked 73 Times in 71 Posts
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Ronaldinho, thanks for the info.
As you said, "Not the end of the world, but not the sort of thing that plays for the advantage at a high level, either". I figured that, so I understand why this isn't a main line, but I'm still surprised that it's not mentioned as a sideline in any of the books I checked, either. Is this really worse than 2. b3, 2. Qe2, the Wing Gambit, or the Alapin Gambit, which are mentioned in those books?
Besides, most people who play the French as black are expecting the normal French pawn structure, and aren't really looking to play dxe4. Stronger players might figure out that they should play dxe4 and will improvise well, despite being out of their preferred line. But at the class level, I'd guess that most people will respond like my opponent on Saturday and try to play it like a typical French position, which will lead to exactly the type of middle game I want.
I think I will stick to 3. Bd3 against the French for now. I understand the positions that are likely to result well enough that I can improvise easily in the opening and reach a middle game where I know what to do, without having to memorize specific moves in sharp lines. That's the best I can hope for, and it frees up my time to studying the sharper openings I play (white against the Sicilian, black in 1. e4 e5) and other areas of the game.
--Fromper
__________________
White:
Ruy Lopez Exchange
Smith-Morra Gambit
French - 3. Bd3 or Tarrasch variation
Pirc/Modern - 150 Attack
Caro Kann Exchange
Scandinavean - main line
Black:
Tarrasch Defense against anything but 1. e4
King's Gambit Declined
Two Knights Defense
Scotch - 4. ... Bc5
Ruy Lopez - Closed, Keres Variation
Ruy Lopez - Exchange, 5. ... Bg4
Decline Danish/Goring/Scotch-type Gambits with early d5
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08-19-2008, 08:01 PM
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#4 (permalink)
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Posts: 65
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
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3.Bd3?!
I think that if blacks plays 5...c5 instead of Be7 Rubenstein variation that you mention should guarantee that black looses the bishop pair and possible get a possible isolated pawn. Though that's playable, why give yourself a slight disadvantage causing you to fight an uphill battle?
Let me know what would you do in response to 5...c5. Maybe there's something I'm overlooking as well.
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08-19-2008, 08:52 PM
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#5 (permalink)
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Posts: 1,253
Thanked 73 Times in 70 Posts
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3. Bd3 isn't a bad line, Schlechter toyed with it, if I recall it's named Schlechter variation after him. I know this line, played it plenty of times myself. Generally, there are two choices, either exd4 or a normal french move. The first will give you the main line of the Schlechter (it's best for black) the second will at best transpose you into a more normal french variation which sort of defeats the purpose of using it in the first place.
The main line would be: 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Bd3 exd4 4. Bxe4 Nf6 5. Bf3 c5 6. Ne2 Nc6 7. Be3 cxd4 8. Nxd4 Ne5 =
But I only rarely played into it, I preferred other moves, they lead to much the same thing, equality or slightly worse with best play. As much as I'd like it to work, it doesn't.
__________________
White:
- Ruy Lopez
- Sicilian Defense: Chekhover variation, Rossolimo variation, Delayed Alapin variation
- French Defense: Bogo-Winawer variation, Classical variation 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5 Be7 5. e5 Nfd7 6. Bxe7
- Pirc Defense: Byrne variation
Black:
- Ruy Lopez: Modern Steinitz variation
- Two Knights Defense: Fritz variation, Ulvestadt variation
- King's Gambit: Falkbeer Countergambit: Nimzowitsch variation
- Indian Defense: Nimzo-Indian Defense, Queen's Indian Defense
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08-19-2008, 08:58 PM
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#6 (permalink)
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Posts: 1,214
Thanked 73 Times in 71 Posts
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Originally Posted by arabianmate
I think that if blacks plays 5...c5 instead of Be7 Rubenstein variation that you mention should guarantee that black looses the bishop pair and possible get a possible isolated pawn. Though that's playable, why give yourself a slight disadvantage causing you to fight an uphill battle?
Let me know what would you do in response to 5...c5. Maybe there's something I'm overlooking as well.
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You mean after 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Bd3 dxe4 4. Bxe4 Nf6 5. Bg5, right?
Now that I've seen Ronaldinho's post, with the line from the Tartakower game, I think I'd probably play 5. Bd3 instead of Bg5. It's probably still better for black, since white's moved that bishop three times, but it's certainly playable at the class level, even if it's not quite good enough for masters.
--Fromper
__________________
White:
Ruy Lopez Exchange
Smith-Morra Gambit
French - 3. Bd3 or Tarrasch variation
Pirc/Modern - 150 Attack
Caro Kann Exchange
Scandinavean - main line
Black:
Tarrasch Defense against anything but 1. e4
King's Gambit Declined
Two Knights Defense
Scotch - 4. ... Bc5
Ruy Lopez - Closed, Keres Variation
Ruy Lopez - Exchange, 5. ... Bg4
Decline Danish/Goring/Scotch-type Gambits with early d5
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08-19-2008, 09:02 PM
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#7 (permalink)
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Posts: 65
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
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You misunderstood what I was saying and funny after reading my comment I see that it wasn't really clear. I was responding to this in the original post:
"The only risk I can see is if black goes for the Rubenstein variation with 3. ... dxe4 4. Bxe4 Nf6 5. Bg5 Be7, white's going to have to either move that king's bishop a third time or else play 6. Bxf6 Bxf6, giving up the bishop pair."
And my point is that problem arises after 5.Bg5 c5 instead of the Be7 in the post.
Your line shows the position equal yes, but it slows the strong kingside attack that white was going for in the post.
yes. 5...c5
Last edited by Perseus : 08-19-2008 at 10:05 PM.
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08-20-2008, 02:12 AM
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#8 (permalink)
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Posts: 472
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
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Hi Fromper,
This is really a question for GM Akobian. After many hours of private lessons on the French I can let you know that after Bd3, Qb6 puts pressure on B2 and d4 simul. Bd3 is not the sharpest line. Best advice, don't play white against someone who knows what they are doing in the French as it simply gives Black too much.
Actually GM Akobian and I are currently looking at a game between he and GM Shabalov here is the position:
[Event "2004 World Open (GM Akobian Champion"]
[CustomFEN ""]
[Mode "ICS"]
[Round "4"]
[White "GM Shabalov"]
[Black "GM Akobian"]
[WhiteELO ""]
[BlackELO ""]
[Result "*"]
1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. e5 c5 4. c3 Qb6 5. Nf3 Nc6 6. a3 c4 7. Nbd2 Na5 8. h4 f5 9. Rb1 Nh6 10. Be2 Be7 11. O-O Bd7 12. h5 Rc8 13. Re1 Nf7 14. Qc2 Qc7 15. Nh2 g5 16. Nf1 g4 17. Ne3 Ng5 18. Qd1 *
GM Akobian goes on to win this as Black.
Last edited by planetchess.org : 08-20-2008 at 02:35 AM.
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08-22-2008, 02:10 AM
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#9 (permalink)
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Posts: 46
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
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I usually play Nc3, as i have seen the most examples with that play, although I have seen a bit of the 3. e5 Advance Variation.
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08-22-2008, 07:15 PM
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#10 (permalink)
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Posts: 472
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
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Hi FerraL,
If you notice in the position above, GM Shabalov played the Advanced Pawn Variation. Two things are interesting about this position: A. GM Akobian plays c4 on move 6. (Most players who consider themselves knowledgable of the French would say that c4 is less strong than c5xd4.)
Also, B. On move 8. Shabalov plays h4! This is a very aggresive move (Shabalov style), however if you notice, after 8. h4!, GM Akobian plays f5! immediately. If exf en passant, then g takes removing White's strong "E" pawn.
This is another reason why GM Akobian is considered the world's foremost expert on the French Defense by his fellow GMs.
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