Ok it was just a skittles game... but he took me out of book early, made some strong moves while I played bad ones ... any suggestions? Anyone play Alekhine's often enough to know if this is a line somewhere? I don't know it.

Okay I'm just going to go through the opening and put up a board of where things have already fallen apart.

1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. d4 d6 4. Nf3 dxe5 5.Nxe5 c6 (so far so good, we're in the Miles variation, usually White plays Be2 here, one of Black's goals is to get his light colored Bishop on f5 early, then play Nd7 trying to exchange off white's well-posted knight, white usually retreats the knight then. My opponent didn't let me get that far!) 6. c4!? (a mix of two systems?) Nb6 (would Nf6 have been better here?) 7. Nc3 Bf5 8. g4 (ack!) Bg6

Now I know in some positions g4 is played later in the game and black plays Be6, but here that doesn't look so hot either now that c4 backs up a d5 push.

9. h4 h6 (I know I'm in big trouble already) 10. Nxg6 fxg6 11. Bd3 e6 (oh my horrible pawn structure! ) 12. Bxg6+ Ke7 (we know where this is going!)



Okay here's the rest of the game. Ugh!


13. c5 Nd5 14.Qf3 Kd7 15. Bf4 Be7 16. Be5 Bf6 17. Nxd5 exd5 18. O-O-O Rf8 19. Qf5+ Ke7 20. Rde1 Nd7 21. Bxf6#

[1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. d4 d6 4. Nf3 dxe5 5. Nxe5 c6 6. c4]

All book moves. 6. ... Nb6 is the new move. Here, 6. ... Nc7 has been tried before, as well as 6. ... Nf6. The move I would look at though is 6. ... Nb4. You're not in Kansas anymore in those lines.

7. Nc3 Bf5
7. ... g6 appealed to me here.

8. g4 Bg6 9. h4 h6
Not the best move on white's part. 8. c5 or 8. Be3 would be my choice. Believe it or not Bc8 here would set white's plans back a bit.
After 8. ... Bg6, black should be in trouble.
9. ... f6 is a tiny bit more resilient.

10. Nxg6+ fxg6 11. Bd3 e6 12. Bxg6+ Ke7 13. c5 Nd5 14.Qf3 Kd7 15. Bf4 Be7 16. Be5 Bf6
15. ... Qf6 would be mildly annoying. You're still losing though.
16. ... Rf8 same deal.

17. Nxd5 exd5?!
That definitely brings a close to this one. Following principles, capturing towards the center is the way to go here. You won't be drawing anytime soon, but it holds longer.

18. O-O-O Rf8 19. Qf5+ Ke7 20. Rde1 Nd7 21. Bxf6#
Some move order inaccuracies. 18. Qf5+ is a killer. After 18. O-O-O Kc8 seems to avert mate.
18. ... Rf8 19. Qf5+ and you're toast again. Pretty finish.

Two pieces of advice:
-1. Look at odd moves (even more so involving knights) in the Alekhine. The backward bishop move Bc8 is a decent example.
-2. Strive for capturing towards the center, for instance your h6 made that an impossibility.


Good luck

Thanks Perseus! You're right, it looks like the way to go after 6. c4 is ... Nb5 ... the natural looking 7. a3 fails to Qxd4. I found the line. Best to work these things out in skittles games than at a tournament. Thanks for the anaylisis!


B.

I'm sure I'm already sounding like a broken record here, but ...

Don't play openings where you concede a space advantage in the center or a devleopment advantage (or, in this case, both!) unless you really know what you're doing.

While Perseus has pointed out some lines where you can play better, this is, in my opinion, a classical example of why players lose when they play openings that neglect the fundamentals before they're ready to:

It's not a problem of theory. As you point out, WHITE deviates first, throwing you both on your own devices. You could learn the right way to play for an advantage here, btu the problem is next time your opponent will deviate in some other way. And then you're both on your own in a position which is much easier for white to play.

That being said, e6 was a HORRIBLE move. I don't care how computers evaluate it, getting your king stuck in the center like this is a recipie for disaster. Qd6 c5 Qe6+ was absolutely necessary.

Don't play into positions where you have to be perfect to survive, while your opponent gets great practical chances with normal moves. It's asking to lose.

Ronaldinho,

I understand your position, but I disagree. I've had some nice wins with the Alekhine as well, and I've only been playing it for a couple of months, also I'm not a tournament-every-week guy just yet. (Used to be.)

I think one learns from one's mistakes, and the best way to understand some of these openings is to dive in and get well battered. If what I posted happened every time I played the opening, I'd know to look elsewhere. (I'm not THAT daft!)

This disaster is not typical, but because it was such bad play on my part, I thought I'd put it up. (We're supposed to post lost games, right?)

In any case, I appreciate the advice.

B.

Interesting game! Even though I don't play Alekhines Defence... it was insightful. Thank You for posting it. Most unusual play.

There is nothing wrong with the Alekhine defense.

As with any good defense, you have to know how to play it. You have to get comfortable with its style of play. I've a long list of victories in this opening. Only the Exchange variation(s) were critical against me, the Modern usually ended up in a draw. Never had too much trouble facing anything else.

I think Double King Pawn, the Siclian, the French are better than the Alekhine. But it's at least equal to the Caro-Kann and Pirc.

I just want to be clear: my point about not playing certain openings has nothing to do with whether or not they're "good" openings in objective terms.

It's about the relevant practical chances. A great example is the Scheveningen sicilian - one of the most popular openings at a high level (although often reached via a najdorf move-order). Fantastic opening! Great chances for black to play for the win! But also a disasterous choice for even a moderately-strong player, because white's position is so much easier to play.

My comment was that if you're missing the fact that Bxg6+ is going to lead to complete disaster, then I feel you're not tactically strong enough to be playing the Alekhine's defense. Playing openings where you secure a foothold in the center will give you a solider foundation to work on your fundamentals, and better results while you do so.

Maybe that's move is an aberration, but when I look at this game I see someone who's way over his head in his chosen opening.

Possibly. Took me a while to get the opening right as well.

I agree with you, Ronaldinho-- you stated the facts very well!


While the unorthodox/hypermodern openings aren't bad, they are tough to play as Black! If you have to play unusual openings, it may be better to play them as White since you have that extra tempo!

I was looking at the book Tiger's Modern today in whch he tries to explain a specific position from move 4--- interesting, but probably painful if you are playing Black and don't have intricate knowledge of the important variations.


I thought about this today-- you have to know many move orders and what to watch out for in these openings, but your opponent seems to be able to play natural moves without having to study or worry too much about openings such as the Alekhine, Modern, etc.

That said, I think the KIA for White is a mediocre choice to use full time... it's passive (the 1. Nf3 move order), and a player may decide to look for greener pastures when he realizes the wins won't come easy with such a restrained set up. The theory of "since the KID is great for Black, it has to be even better for White!" just isn't true.

I've never really played the Siclian at all seriously ( I spent all my time in the French, Caro, Pirc, Modern. etc.-- a new opening against 1. e4 every time I lost was my motto-- a terrible way to proceed) and have a desire to pursue it, but it is kind of intimidating in one sense-- when White deviates, you have to know what to do, e.g., 1. e4 c5 2. Bc4, or 2. Nc3 and then 3. Bc4... i guess I will land on the Sicilian or French as a permanent answer to e4 someday.