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05-14-2009, 01:20 AM
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#11 (permalink)
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Posts: 2,156
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Originally Posted by granturismo4ad
In terms of cons, e4 has many responses, while something like d4 or c4 would have less sensible options for Black. More opening theory attached to e4 than d4 or c4.
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It's easier with e4 to get a substantial edge, but it's easier for black to take it away as well. White's chances for an edge are smaller in other opening trees, as are black's chances to deny an edge.
__________________
White:
- Ruy Lopez
- Sicilian Defense: Chekhover variation, Rossolimo variation, 2. ... e6 3. d4
- French Defense: Bogo-Winawer variation, Alekhine-Chatard attack
- Pirc Defense: Byrne variation
Black:
- Ruy Lopez: Modern Steinitz variation
- Two Knights Defense: Fritz variation, Ulvestadt variation
- King's Gambit: Falkbeer Countergambit: Nimzowitsch variation
- Tarrasch Defense
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05-14-2009, 01:21 AM
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#12 (permalink)
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Posts: 118
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@granturismo4ad
Ok. Every beginning move has many responses (20 to be exact).
How about more specifically. Do you know about weaknesses: pawns, pieces, squares, etc?
@Perseus
1.e4 CAN become more tactical more quickly than say 1.Nf3 or 1.c4, etc. That does not mean 1.e4 can get a substantial edge. It's YOU who gets the edge with follow up moves.
Last edited by Belaji; 05-14-2009 at 01:27 AM..
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05-14-2009, 01:46 AM
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#13 (permalink)
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Posts: 1,343
Thanked 46 Times in 45 Posts
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Originally Posted by Belaji
Ok. Every beginning move has many responses (20 to be exact).
How about more specifically. Do you know about weaknesses: pawns, pieces, squares, etc?
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Sure, there are 20 possible first moves, but only about 6 are the best (e4, d4, d4, Nf3, b3, f4).
e4: See my earlier post.
d4: Less tactical than e4, as development takes an extra move. Usually a good amount of pawns in the center, and therefore less piece activity. A tad slower pace of play, but still has plenty of bite.
c4: Attacks a central square from a non-center pawn. Does not help development. Common plan includes domination of the d5 square by c4, Nc3, g3, and Bg2.
Nf3: Prevents Black's 1. ...e5, but is otherwise flexible for both sides. Often used with 2. c4 or 2. b3 to occupy the center with pieces instead of pawns.
b3: Hypermodern opening that places the bishop on the a1-h8 diagonal, attacking a Black pawn on e5. Similar to the Dragon Sicilian for Black.
f4: Used if the White player prefers attacking chances over king safety and development. Wild, tactical battles often result, and pawns are often gambited left and right.
__________________
Brick walls hurt, but are effective for banging against repeatedly. For future reference, cardboard walls are fun too 
Being a professional player is something akin to being a prostitute. First I played because other people did it. Then I played because I liked to play. And finally I played just for the money. - Benko
Procrastination: due date = do date
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05-14-2009, 02:07 AM
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#14 (permalink)
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Posts: 118
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Good.
Here are some of the major pros to 1.e4 as I see them:
1) it places a force of 1 on the center
2) it increases Total Mobility (total number of legal moves) from 20 to 30 (due mostly to the ability of the Q & Bf1 to move)
3) it facilitates king-side castling (King Safety) since the Bf1 needs to move (1.e3 or 1.g3 does it as well)
4) White's white square pieces (Q & Bf1) can come out more quickly (Black's king is on a white square) so there is greater potential for attacking the Black king
What specifically are the cons to 1.e4? I am not asking what happens next, as it can't be known (that is when you are sitting down in front of an opponent and the both of you need to make moves till the end of the game).
In my opinion, the position on the board dictates the candidate moves so we must know the imbalances of the position at hand.
Bela
Last edited by Belaji; 05-14-2009 at 02:47 AM..
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05-14-2009, 03:23 AM
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#15 (permalink)
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Posts: 2,156
Thanked 120 Times in 116 Posts
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Originally Posted by Belaji
@Perseus
1.e4 CAN become more tactical more quickly than say 1.Nf3 or 1.c4, etc. That does not mean 1.e4 can get a substantial edge. It's YOU who gets the edge with follow up moves.
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Keep in mind we're blatently generalizing. Of course you can get a substantial edge with 1. e4, though you're right there's no guarantee, of course there isn't, it requires good chess regardless, seems a moot point in my opinion.
__________________
White:
- Ruy Lopez
- Sicilian Defense: Chekhover variation, Rossolimo variation, 2. ... e6 3. d4
- French Defense: Bogo-Winawer variation, Alekhine-Chatard attack
- Pirc Defense: Byrne variation
Black:
- Ruy Lopez: Modern Steinitz variation
- Two Knights Defense: Fritz variation, Ulvestadt variation
- King's Gambit: Falkbeer Countergambit: Nimzowitsch variation
- Tarrasch Defense
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05-14-2009, 03:38 AM
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#16 (permalink)
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Posts: 118
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
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Actually, statistically, 1.d4 scores higher than 1.e4 in grandmaster chess.
We are in Beginners Corner, so I am attempting to ask questions about a specific move. Under master level, the "correct" or "optimal" opening does not matter. It's about understanding the pros and cons of individual moves. That's all I am attempting to show.
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05-14-2009, 11:47 AM
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#17 (permalink)
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Posts: 2,156
Thanked 120 Times in 116 Posts
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Originally Posted by Belaji
Actually, statistically, 1.d4 scores higher than 1.e4 in grandmaster chess.
We are in Beginners Corner, so I am attempting to ask questions about a specific move. Under master level, the "correct" or "optimal" opening does not matter. It's about understanding the pros and cons of individual moves. That's all I am attempting to show.
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I never meant to imply that 1. e4 scores better. Statistically, it doesn't, 54% to d4's 55% if I recall. Both are perfectly fine and equally playable and good. All I'm trying to say is that 1. d4 is less sharp than 1. e4.
Understanding why you play the moves you play is extremely important at all levels, I'm in full agreement 
__________________
White:
- Ruy Lopez
- Sicilian Defense: Chekhover variation, Rossolimo variation, 2. ... e6 3. d4
- French Defense: Bogo-Winawer variation, Alekhine-Chatard attack
- Pirc Defense: Byrne variation
Black:
- Ruy Lopez: Modern Steinitz variation
- Two Knights Defense: Fritz variation, Ulvestadt variation
- King's Gambit: Falkbeer Countergambit: Nimzowitsch variation
- Tarrasch Defense
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05-14-2009, 02:39 PM
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#18 (permalink)
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Posts: 2,271
Thanked 131 Times in 128 Posts
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I'll agree with the recommendation to read Chernev's "Logical Chess: Move by Move". In it, he goes through a bunch of master games (33? I don't remember off the top of my head) and explains EVERY move. For most of these, it's informative stuff, but I always found it amusing that he had to find 15 different ways to explain 1. e4.  You'll definitely get several good answers to the original question that way.
--Fromper
__________________
"Don't be afraid of ghosts! Always play the moves you want to play unless you see a genuine tactical drawback." --Grandmaster Neil McDonald
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05-14-2009, 03:47 PM
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#19 (permalink)
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Posts: 118
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
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Here are a few cons to 1.e4.
1) it creates a target
2) it puts less force on d3 and f3
Let me explain those two if I may.
One type of target (there are a few more I have identified) I call Equally Attacked and Equally Defended (EAD). For example, if a Unit (Pawn or Piece) is attacked once and defended once, I say it's EAD1. If a Unit is attacked zero and defended zero, I say it's EAD0 (these type of targets are also commonly called "hanging" or "loose"). In the opening position all 4 rooks are EAD0 therefore they are considered targets.
Here is a method that may help you to solve tactic problems. First, look for all targets. Most of the time the answer will involve one or more targets by my simple definition alone.
Secondly, in the starting position, the force on the square d3 is 3 (from the pawn on c2; the Pe2, and the Bf1) and on f3 the total force is 4 (from the pawn on g2; the Pe2, and the Qd1, and Ng1). After 1.e4, the forces on d2 and f3 change to 2 and 3 respectively.
Bela
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05-14-2009, 11:12 PM
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#20 (permalink)
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Posts: 1,343
Thanked 46 Times in 45 Posts
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Never heard of EAD before, but makes sense and explanations easier.
Also, the f-pawns have a force of one, since the king is the only piece defending that square in the original position. Hopefully that's correct. 
__________________
Brick walls hurt, but are effective for banging against repeatedly. For future reference, cardboard walls are fun too 
Being a professional player is something akin to being a prostitute. First I played because other people did it. Then I played because I liked to play. And finally I played just for the money. - Benko
Procrastination: due date = do date
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